- Bran I
- Catelyn I
- Daenerys I
- Eddard I,
- Jon I
- Catelyn II
- Arya I
- Bran II
- Tyrion I
- Jon II
- Daenerys II
- Eddard II
- Tyrion II
- Catelyn III
- Sansa I
- Eddard III
- Bran III
- Catelyn IV
- Jon III
- Eddard IV
- Tyrion III
- Arya II
- Daenerys III
- Bran IV
- Eddard V
- Jon IV
- Eddard VI
- Catelyn V
- Sansa II
- Eddard VII
- Tyrion IV
- Arya III
- Eddard VIII
- Catelyn VI
- Eddard IX
- Daenerys IV
- Bran V
- Tyrion V
- Eddard X
- Catelyn VII
- Jon V
- Tyrion VI
- Eddard XI
- Sansa III
- Eddard XII
- Daenerys V
- Eddard XIII
- Jon VI
- Eddard XIV
- Arya IV
- Sansa IV
- Jon VII
- Bran VI
- Daenerys VI
- Catelyn VIII
- Tyrion VII
- Sansa V
- Eddard XV
- Catelyn IX
- Jon VIII
- Daenerys VII
- Tyrion VIII
- Catelyn X
- Daenerys VIII
- Arya V
- Bran VII
- Sansa VI
- Daenerys IX
- Tyrion IX
- Jon IX
- Catelyn XI
- Daenerys X
-
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Race for the Iron Throne 
10. *John* II
Whoops. Will fix.
Please keep going with your chapter analyses, I’ve read every single one with my re-read and now I’ve caught up and I’m not sure what I’m going to do! They are really great.
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
Can’t wait to see your thoughts on Catelyn IX and the Frey’s/
Wish granted.
Can I ask your opinion?
I am debating with someone over which surname Jon would use: Stark or Targaryen. I say if Jon learns his heritage, and finally does press his claim, he would be using the name Targaryen if he was Rhaegar’s legitimate son. South of the Neck, Stark doesn’t hold a lot of weight, but Targaryen has more weight. If he uses Stark, then he would invite rumors and questions surrounding whether he actually is Rhaegar’s son.
He argues that we don’t see any Targaryen supporters like we do Stark supporters, but I argue that unlike the Starks, there aren’t any Targaryens in Westeros, and the loyalists likely don’t benefit from the natural boundaries the North has and would be facing five of the seven kingdoms. He argues he needs to use Stark to win Northmen, to which I point out that they are following Stannis and they followed Robert before him, as long as they have Stark overlord they seem content. Besides, a Targaryen with a Stark mother would probably be good enough.
Then there is the issue of Robb’s will naming Jon a Stark.
But there is simple patrilineal tradition with the son taking the father’s name which spans millenia. The only exceptions to this rule were if the highborn mother married a man with no surname as with the Mormonts or the mother was heir to a Dornish house. Lyanna wasn’t DOrnish, and even DOrnish would have named Ned the heir since he was the older sibling, and Rhaegar’s house was higher than Lyanna’s.
What would say regarding that
If he’s Rhaegar’s son, he’s not a Stark. Descent is patrilineal. Even in Dorne, the children takes the father’s name.
Doran’s mother was the reigning Princess of Dorne, and he is still a Martell. It is the same with descendants of Mariyah Martell.
What would be the political consequences of Jon trying to name himself Stark instead of Targaryen when the news of his parentage is made public?
Good point…the problem is that’s Dornish law, and it’s not how the North rolls. So naming himself a Stark would help.
Maege Mormont’s girls are all Mormonts, even though Maege is a Mormont by birth and not marriage.
Naming himself a Stark would more than Targaryen?
Using the surname Stark would help him get more support generally than Targaryen?
What about the lack of Targaryen supporters throughout Westeros some people point to?
Why? The Targaryens ruled Westeros for 300 years, the Starks don’t have any legacy in the South.
What would you argue against someone saying Jon could rule as a Snow or Stark, rather than a Targaryen if he decided to press his claim through his father Rhaegar?
Hi all. I know I’m late in replying to this thread but I just found this website 10 mins ago. I can’t wait to dig in.
Regarding what surname Jon Snow should take if/when his parentage is revealed, well, it doesn’t matter if his parents are Ned/Ashara/Whoever or Rhaegar/Lyanna, the fact remains that he is a bastard born in the North so he would still be Snow. Ned was married to Catelyn so any children with other women are automatically illegitimate; similarly Rhaegar and Lyanna weren’t married either so he is still illegitimate even if he is their son.
Sorry if I’m mistaken. It’s been a while since I read the books.
It’s not clear that Rhaegar and Lyanna weren’t married.
Targaryens historically practiced both polygamy and incest, after all.
There’s precedent.
There’s no evidence that they weren’t married. To add to what Steven said,if Jon wasn’t legitimate then the KG would have gone to Dragonstone to protect their king, Viserys. By sacrificing their lives to protect a royal bastard, they would have been neglecting their duty to protect the king.
When Ned asks why they weren’t on Dragonstone with Viserys, LC Gerold Hightower responds “We swore a vow.” That vow is mentioned by Jaime in ACoK by the exact same man who uttered those words tells him “After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me ‘You swore a vow to guard the king not to judge him.'” That would have been a strange response if Jon was illegitimate, saying “we aren’t guarding our king because we swore a vow to guard the king.” The only way for that to have made sense if Jon was legitimate, and the rightful heir.
Also, Rhaegar was well-read and knew there was precedent for multiple wives. Polygamy wasn’t mentioned as abolished just discontinued, so it likely was still legal, just forgotten.
Aegon I’s heir, Aenys, was the son of his second wife, Rhaenys, and so there is precedent for the heir being child of the second wife in a polygamous marriage.
I just want to say how much I love your insights, and also comment that I hope you finish GoT before the show’s Season 4 comes out. In any event, I look forward this year, to seeing you do CoK when you get around to it.
As a matter of fact, I just finished my last outline for AGOT, so I’m definitely going to be done before the start.
Can’t wait for ACOK.
Yeah, Theon’s chapters especially will be a blast…
Theon, sure.
But mostly, I am salivating over the Tyrion chapters, the Davos chapters, and the first half of Catelyn’s chapters.
So close to the finish line.
It’s the final countdown…
[…] cunning maneuvering combined with his self-deprecating witticisms. Find tons of information on it here and […]
Oh no I’ve caught up! My endless stream of brilliant clear writing and clever analysis of the best fantasy I’ve ever read has to be put on hold. Can’t wait for the next one!
Awesome that you’ve finished analyzing book 1! I would love to buy this series as an audiobook so I can listen to it while I work rather than reading it.
I remember you linking to a page on Tywin’s motives on family, could you show it here, I can’t find it again and I’m really interested in reading it all.
Hmmm…doesn’t ring a bell. Have you tried searching for Tywin? That should pull up every time I mention his name.
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
First of all, I would like to commend you. The chapter-by-chapters are very in depth, and have done a pretty amazing job of analyzing what’s going on.
I do have one complaint so far as I’ve read, which is in regard with how you’ve dealt with Varys. I think that this article here (https://bryndenbfish.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/symbol-and-stories-in-westeros-part-1-the-spider-and-the-dragon/) does a pretty good job of explaining his actions and motives, and I’d like you to take a look at it. While I don’t agree with everything in that article, most of it seems about right to me.
Also, seeing as we know that Varys was testing Ned until he offered his help to protect Robert (he says so himself), I’d suggest taking most of what he said to Ned with a grain of salt, as a means of “testing” him. Given the sheer passivity of the Lannister Conspiracy, I doubt they were, for instance, planning to have Robert assassinated at the tourney melee – Cersei never spent time thinking about it in later books for one.
I disagree, I think sloppy assassination attempts are absolutely in the wheelhouse of the Lannister Conspiracy – and Cersei never thinks about it because Robert’s dead so why bother?
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
I need to find time to read these all. I haven’t even had time comment on the ones I have, but you are absolutely brilliant and a vibrant light of genius in the ASOIAF discourse. I’m learning more history than I ever have and seeing how thorough of an author Martin is. Sometimes it takes a brilliant writer/essayist such as yourself to showcase a brilliant writer. Thank you so much for doing this.
[…] In order to decide which characters that I wanted to discuss and analyze, I used this website, where the author did a wonderful job analyzing almost every character that you see throughout the show, and book. https://racefortheironthrone.wordpress.com/archive/cbc-analysis/cbc-analysis-game-of-thrones/ […]
These are freaking amazing!
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
Hi Steven, please tell me you are going to analyze all the books because i love these posts. I’m still on GoT but at the pace I’m working through them I’m terrified to catch up and run out of these great observations and discussions.
Are you planning to so the last 2 books in chronological order or published order, since they run in parallel to each other? I’m leaning toward chronological just because i think it would be interesting to read your expert analysis as events happen in the GRRM timeline.
Thanks again for all your hard work.
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
[…] CBC Analysis: Game of Thrones […]
I’m a Jon Snow fan here and what I would like to say is that at the end of it all i’m rooting for Jon Snow to be the heir of the iron throne.