Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 5 Discussion Thread

Hey folks! We’re getting towards the end of the (truncated) season, but as usual I’ll be doing the usual live-chat over on Low Expectations Viewing, so check that out starting at 9PM Eastern.

At the same time, I also want to give you a space to kibbitz amongst yourselves, so feel free to have at it in the comments below.

 

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36 thoughts on “Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 5 Discussion Thread

  1. Wild Bill says:

    Do I see the Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven with our intrepid heroes marching out beyond the wall?

    Or the seven of the Sept? Or something…

    • I don’t know, I was getting more of an Ocean’s Eleven vibe …

      • Wild Bill says:

        I had a thought that Peter Vaughn (Master Aemon, and years earlier a star in the movie The Magnificent Seven, and generally having a long, illustrious career) might be given a nod by D&D. But that’s too obscure.

        It would take a bit of research (and mania) to align the characters of The Seven Samurai, or The Magnificent Seven, or of Oceans Eleven (nice :)) to the GoT characters.

        But, I will offer a really facile take to the Sept:

        1) Father – Jon

        2) Mother – Ser Jorah, representing the Mother of Dragons, etc. etc.

        3) Warrior – Tormund

        4) Smith – Gendry, of course

        5) Maid – the Hound 😀 he’s done his job trying to keep Sansa and Arya safe…

        6) Crone – Davos, representing wisdom

        7) Stranger – Beric/Thoros? Whichever one of those is in the seven. I lose track…

  2. Brett says:

    Not bad for a slower episode, although Cersei and Daenerys coming to an armistice seems so unsatisfying. Dany just wiped out her army – she should not be coming to terms, unless we’re going off the assumption that there are literally no other armies in play who could siege King’s Landing.

    The whole “group out to capture a wight” is pretty cool-looking in sequences.

    It’s good to have Gendry back, although I kind of wish he could have gotten the whole ” you are now Gendry Baratheon” treatment. Makes me suspect that everyone except Jon is going to die on the expedition to bring the wight back.

    • kaelandm says:

      This is quite possible, but there are so many juicy reunions in that group (the Hound and Arya/Sansa, the Hound and Brienne, Gendry and Arya, Melisandre and Gendry, Mel and the BwB) that I doubt they’d pass up on all the opportunities for more character drama – especially since they’re so obsessed with reunion scenes this season. I think the most likely to die are probably Tormund, Jorah and Beric, while I really doubt that the Hound and Gendry are dying before they make it to Winterfell. I feel like at least one of the BwB has to live, and I’m pretty sure it’s going to be Thoros, since he’s had some characterization this season whereas Beric is just Gritty Lord of Light Guy. Maybe Thoros will eventually hook up with Melisandre and the other Red Priests.

      • Brett says:

        Probably true – they do love their reunion scenes, even though they often suck at doing them (seriously, did the reunion scenes between Bran, Sansa, and Arya feel like what you’d expect from three siblings who thought they’d never see each other again and assumed the others were dead?). Tyrion-Jaime was a bit better, although given that I hate the “armistice” subplot so much that’s likely dragging it down for me.

        • kaelandm says:

          Yeah. It’s really disappointing to me how much they’ve bungled the big reunions (especially the Starks, as you said). The best thing (and at this point IMO the only thing) GoT has in terms of writing are their intimate/heartfelt character interactions, so while I’m not exactly shocked that they’ve messed up broader plotlines this season, I was really unpleasantly surprised at how flat those moments felt.

    • JG says:

      Yeah the armistice is completely absurd. There is no way Cersei should still be on the throne.

      • Brett says:

        I could see her on the throne, but it should be a full-blown “Mad Queen holding the city hostage with the threat of destroying it with wildfire” situation.

  3. kaelandm says:

    I thought the Cersei/Jaime scene was well-acted and all, but Cersei getting pregnant is IMO 100% a show invention, probably made to give some more dramatic weight to her death. I wonder though, does this mean Jaime won’t be killing her as he likely will in the books? He’s already seen her do terrible things – including using wildfire on KL civilians, which should have been his dealbreaker moment – and stuck with her. Now that she’s pregnant, I can’t imagine him killing her as he’s characterized now. Either they make another hard 180 with his character or they have someone else kill Cersei – likely Dany, which will make her look even worse than she already does in the show. And THAT makes me think that they really are going for Mad Queen Dany who has to be pulled back from the brink by Jon and Tyrion… Ugh. I really hope not. :/

    • Wild Bill says:

      No, no, I think D&D are looking to do a real feel-good final next season – a’la “where are they now”. To be sure there will be tons of blood and death and such in between. To be sure, it will be as satisfying as the epilogue of War and Peace, which is to say, not…

      So, Dany and Jon have a good brood of children (not counting the dragons). The prophecies about Dany bearing a child only when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east are, of course, revealed to be prophcy-type rhetoric and total indirection, since the climatic battle vs the white walkers starts at dawn with the dragons attacking from the west, and only ending at dusk with the dragons retiring after a good days work. Eventually, Dany and Jon revolutionize the body politic to an 21’st century social democracy.

      Jaime is a loving single dad, who occassionally reflects on Marcella and Tommin, but, good Uncle Bronn, visits often enough to lighten the mood, especially with his gifts to Catelyn, Jaime’s only living daughter. Jaime often thinks of opportunities lost with Brienne, but, that ship has already sailed. Uncle Tyrion is also welcomed, though young Catelyn wonders about seeming tensions between her father and Tyrion…

      Brienne finds Tormunds advances compelling, eventually, and they get it on…

      Davos, in the twilight of his life, seduces Millisendei, with some encouragment from Grey Worm, who finds the notion of self-awareness very uncomfortable, and retreats to his “original” unsullied mind-set.

      Meanwhile, Sandra is very confident in her rule of Winterfell (but not the North, since Jon has that), and poor Theon is, well, poor Theon – a’la Ser Dontos – she is tempted to marry him, but… The Hound prevails, and is happy to be her consort (so the Stark name will carry on). Theon becomes a wondering sept-type a’la Meribold.

      Well, who couldn’t expect Arya and Gendry to hook up? The Baratheon’s live on!

      Sadly, Tyrion does not find love. But, he does find the respect that he most craves as he, ultimately, is the Kingmaker in all of this – he finds the various connections and paths that are necessary for Westeros fight the White-Walkers and to find a peace that is good for all.

      And Varys and LittleFinger fade away or something… Considering they were the actual actors that stimulate everything…

      Cheers

    • JG says:

      I can’t really take a Mad Queen Dany arc on the show seriously since Cersei suffered no consequences for destroying the Great Sept and the whole of House Tyrell. If I’m Dany I’d think that the people of Westeros will put up with whatever shit you (the showrunners) throw at them.

      • kaelandm says:

        Right?? The Smallfolk aren’t even mad! They’re still cheering for Cersei! Makes me wonder if the showrunners actually think the people would buy Cersei’s “what a terrible… accident” spiel. Ugh.

  4. batpants23 says:

    So I noticed that before Jon sets off from Dragonstone he says to Dany “I wish you good fortune in the wars to come” which is exactly what was said to Ned Stark (in the flashback of Season 6 ep 10) by Sir Arthur Dayne. I looked it up and apparently Mance Raider said this before he died as well. I have no idea what this means! does Jon die….again?!?! Also during the episode Dany asks about him being stabbed.

    • apolotresse says:

      Both Mance and Stannis died in the end. Both Dayne and Ned died as well.

      • Johnny Desperado says:

        Jon is as dead as fried chicken. But the annulment! He is the KING! But he said the death words. All the Dani Jon shippers didn’t realize, Jon is dead. No blood pumps through his heart no human remains. He will die defending the realm. FUCK! can’t wait!

    • Tywin of the Hill says:

      Nah. It’s just a phrase D&D took a liking to.

  5. apolotresse says:

    1. I think it is a really DUMB idea on so many levels to bring an active wight to south of the Wall:
    a. There is no need to convince Cersei of anything. As they emphasized, Cersei militarily defeated in any way; the armistice just gives Cersei a good opportunity to pull-up a Red Wedding-type of trick in which one or more of the Dragons and possibly one of Dany’s advisors die.
    b. No one knows about the risks of having an active wight among living population. For all we know, a small mistake might mean “contagion” or it might be that the White Walkers get their key to trespass the Wall’s magic.
    c. We already know from the books and the producers confirmed in the inside the episode that if a wight comes south of the Wall far from its masters it would just decompose and cease to be active, so all that effort of going beyond the Wall, getting some lovable characters killed and going back to Dragonstone/King’s Landing will be in vain at the end let alone a way to expose themselves to the speed-of-light ships of Euron and to getting captured. So I think this is the big flaw of the episode.

    2. I found it cool that they confirmed that Jon is not a bastard in a subtle way (I’m sure many viewers didn’t really get that detail), but I think at this point it has no consequence. If Jon survives all this ordeal he will be followed by the same reasons he has been followed so far. I think is more relevant to the plot that the dragons like him. If Dany were the one to die when Cersei does her mischief, it would be Jon the one who will have to ride one of the dragons to save the world. Could it be that the show is pointing in that direction? Dany dying at the end of this season and Jon having to fill the gap?

    3. One mention also bothered me: the one about that prophecy of the Drowned God bringing the downfall of Aegon the Conqueror. It could be a foreshadowing of Euron having an active part in defeating Dany’s cause for good, maybe teaming up with Cersei in the fake armistice.

    4. I hope that Bran is able to solve the strife there will be between Arya and Sansa because of LF. As evil as LF could be, I don’t know if he would be stupid enough to do something that brings down the Starks again knowing what’s coming north of the Wall.

  6. William Outzen says:

    I’ve had my long term theories about how this all plays out on the show. This episode gave me more to work with. With Littlefinger scheming, I think he somehow manipulates people to the extent where he and Sansa get the Iron Throne. Sansa then outplays him, claiming the throne herself with him realizing that he’s been beaten before he dies. I think Dany will die at the hands of Jon (in the books this will be to forge Lightbringer), Jon will go be Jon and die fighting the White Walkers. As for Jaime, if he doesn’t kill Cersei I have no idea what the heck he’ll do.

    • Brett says:

      Littlefinger feels like a placeholder to me right now. He’s going to die at Winterfell, but for some reason* they can’t just have him go down sooner – he’s got to waste time in several episodes before he finally gets taken out (probably by Arya, with the show implicitly praising her for being ruthless about it).

      * Shades of Tyrion wasting time in Mereen last season until Daenerys showed up.

      Who knows with Jaime. I get the impression that show-runners really like the Lannister Twins and want to drag out their storyline as long as possible, so even though they’re probably going to die, it won’t happen until late next season.

  7. Mark says:

    Loved the episode but the fast-travel thing is starting to annoy me. Whole season seems rushed to get the characters together fast but I suppose it has to be this way with 3 less episodes. Hopefully we get to see Ghost soon…..

  8. JG says:

    I felt bad for Dickon but seeing Randyll Tarly burn was extremely satisfying.

  9. artihcus022 says:

    NOTES:

    1) Book!Jon Snow is crying somewhere in the Ideaspace or Immateria, whatever Alan Moore calls it, about his captive wights in Castle Black’s Ice Cells. He would demand that Show!Jon be sent to serve with Three-Finger Hobb in the Kitchens and think about his stupidity and unearned skills, someone who, if Show!Sansa indeed coup’detat’d him, I would feel was entirely deserved.

    2) If there’s any doubts about the double standards of the showrunners’ sexism:
    — Jon Snow kills Olly and the N-Watch traitors and he’s seen doing justice. Olly and the N-Watch have the same motivations as Randyll Tarly does, i.e. keep them foreigners out…and yet we are somehow supposed to see Dany’s actions with…ambiguity, how? I mean Benioff says in Inside the Episode, that it’s a gray situation that viewers should decide, but it’s so biased and gendered, holding a woman with power and authority to different standards than a man.

    Somehow, the show has made me out-and-out pro-Dany in the way the books never did…(I am of course pro-Stannis, pro-BWB and pro-Stoneheart albeit I do like Book!Dany about as much as I like Book!Robb).

    3) Gendry returning to the story is so obviously fanfiction that it’s not even funny. Although I wonder how that plotline will resolve in Season 8. I mean okay, in the show timeline, Gendry never feels any thing for Robert, and the person who told him about his father was a woman who wanted to sacrifice him to Rhillor. He met Arya for 2 seasons and knew for the same time, how is it the first thing he thinks off when he meets Jon is some connection that is meaningless to him, and not Arya.

  10. mrs bauser says:

    How the hell were Jaime and Bronn not captured by Dany’s army? And yes, it is interesting that they are confirming Rhaegar’s marriage to Lyanna but it annoys me that Sam ( who is supposed to be incredibly booksmart) didn’t catch that

    • apolotresse says:

      My thoughts exactly. If Bronn was dragging Jaime in armor, they couldn’t have gone that far. I felt disappointed that Dany didn’t even say something like “find the Kingslayer and the guy who tried to kill my dragon”.

      Sam also disappointed me that way. He should be smarter than that. And getting angry at sweet Gilly really annoyed me. She only wants to impress him.

  11. Steven Xue says:

    Overall it was an ok episode. Far better than last week’s. My biggest beef is that they killed off Randyll and his son Billy Bones. What was the point of building up Sam’s plot with his father last season and him stealing Heartbane when there would be no resolution to the sword theft? I was expecting somewhere down this season we would see Randyll and Dickon hunting Sam down. Maybe bringing an army outside the doors of the Citadel and demand that Sam give back the sword or threaten to burn the Citadel to the ground.

    • apolotresse says:

      According to the show, House Tarly would now pass to the ugly Fossoway marrying Sam’s sister, given that Sam is still enrolled in the Night’s Watch.

      • Steven Xue says:

        Really? And I thought Sam was going to get his own Get out of the Watch free card to inherit his family estate now that his father and brother have been immolated by Dany. Then again by the end of the show there probably won’t even be a Night’s Watch. If that were the case then Sam would be free to claim Horn Hill and marry Gilly.

  12. Denverite says:

    How the fuck long can Bronn and Jaime hold their breaths?

  13. Ethan says:

    I find it quite extraordinary how bad D&D seem to have become as writers, with nonsensical plotting and very inconstant and unbelievable characterisation. The Starks act like they last saw each other at breakfast and nobody seems to have consistent convictions or goals. At this point I can only assume that they piggybacked off GRRMS capable writing in the earlier seasons and now, left without a roadmap, have no innate writing ability to fall back on.

  14. Chris says:

    So, what was the point of Dany landing on Dragonstone and trying to intimidate Jon Snow with her dragon? I got the sense she was going to ask him to “bend the knee or else” [again] after having made the same threat to the Tarlys et al.

    About the bringing the wight down to King’s Landing – there is one way to explain how it could happen, albeit its a weak reason. In the books it was suggested the dead hand Allister Thorne brought with him decomposed before he could have an audience with Tyrion. But now that Dany’s dragons are in Westeros is it not possible for that (white walker-COTF) magic to allow them to survive in the south now?

    Anyone else thought it strange that Litttlefinger knew he was being watched by a trained assassin of the Faceless Men? Why did Littlefinger even need to keep the letter and not destroy it?

    What ever happened to Quaithe and the warlocks btw? I thought they were still a threat to Dany even after the House of the Undying?

    • mrs bauser says:

      Littlefinger was using the letter as bait. He wanted Arya to find it to intensify her suspicion of Sansa. Another way the show has offended me. Arya would never fall for that.

      • Chris says:

        Ohh thanks for that. I actually thought the letter was the one Littlefinger had Lysa Tully send to Catelyn. Having watched the episode again, the letter is one that Cersei had Sansa send to Arya etc after Joffrey was invested as king. Apparently the letter said:

        “Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark.”

        Still not sure how this would make Arya suspicious of Sansa. =/

  15. Wild Bill says:

    At this point, it looks to me that D&D are looking to take all the surviving characters to the underground command bunker (ie the crypts at Winterfell) where they will…

    Have over the top combat with undead and worse, while having over the top interpersonal relationships. Then it ends somehow, to all our satisfaction 😉 Including my prior tongue-in-cheek “where are they now” post a bit earlier as a possible ending…

    btw, this includes a never alluded to, force march by the unsullied from Kings Landing to the north to save the day at the last instant, a’la the Vale troops arriving after a brisk 600 mile march, or whatever, to “ride to the sounds of cannon”, and save Jon at the last possible second.

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