Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 3 Discussion Thread

Hey folks! So since the live-chat didn’t quite work, the group from last time decided that we would do a group Skype chat and then post screencaps of our chat on this blog. So check that out starting at 9!

At the same time, I also want to give you a space to kibbitz amongst yourselves, so feel free to have at it in the comments below.


38 thoughts on “Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 3 Discussion Thread

  1. John says:

    Game of Thrones is like a trip to Mars.

    At first, you’re excited by the concept of setting foot in a distant land with a history all of it’s own and with so much potential. Then you realize that getting there takes a lot of time, you lose some of your best friends on the way to random accidents, and you start to lose faith in the people in charge. Now, over 2,000 days later, you’re participating because you’re locked into a mission, life has lost all meaning, and recently you found out that instead of going to Mars, mission control has diverted you to Phobos: close, but no cigar.

    I thought it would be fun to see where GRRM is heading, but instead of a clear message in the fire, I get a bunch of flaming cow dung that reeks and keeps spitting back into my face.

    This show is an exercise in poor character development/payoff, the loss of the main thematic jist of the written work, and a point of shame instead of pride.

  2. artihcus022 says:

    I honestly think the showrunners haven’t read past Book 3 and their weird choices and changes is honestly revealing about their intentions and beliefs:

    1) The Iron Bank of Braavos supports the slave trade and opposes revolutionaries. Which would be news to a banking institution founded by slaves running away from Valyria I am sure. I better see Nestoris and other Bankers going North and treating with Sansa and Dany. When ”Confederate” comes, expect us to see Carpetbaggers and Scalywags and other Northern Houses supporting Confederate slavery and of course ignore that modern financial capital and capitalism (starting from Jacobin France to Tory-Whig England) played a major role in the abolition of slavery and the slave trade. Even Karl Marx gave capitalism that much credit.

    I am sorry, this was for me one of the most infuriating changes…easily ranking alongside Sansa-Jeyne Poole, Tyrion-Tysha and others. This is gross malicious slander.

    Although weirdly enough, the Iron Bank being involved in the slave trade and losing out on that does in fact segue better with their historical parallels of Amsterdam and Venetian Merchant financing.

    2) And what is this, with Cersei being praised as a competent queen, and second coming of Tywin.

    3) Ellaria and Tyene’s fates was kind of silly. I mean it’s not satisfying. I mean it is satisfying in that we don’t hear any more Sand Snake dialogues or see less of them, but I was expecting that Cersei would do less.

    4) Tyrion’s strategies failing, is obviously there to set up a major Daenerys empowerment moment (TM) I think.

    5) I did like Bran’s eerie amorality. That was creepy. And Sansa proving a responsible administrator paying attention to grain and food supplies was nice.

    6) I don’t know what Jim Broadbent’s character is supposed to signify and represent. Why they didn’t bring Marwyn in is beyond me.

    • Murc says:

      I’m gonna be honest, I figured that while Braavos as a whole is publicly and vociferously anti-slavery in the books, I always assumed the Iron Bank speicifically had a lot of interest in the slave trade.

      Slavery was a long, long, long time ago for Braavos. The capital classes of the city have had time to wax fat and wealthy. Braavos is at least a quasi-Republic, so some respect has to be given to the political opinions of the populace, but you’ll note they didn’t try that hard to stamp our slavery in Pentos, and it would be very odd to me if the richest and most powerful financial institution in the known world wasn’t tied in to the slave trade, especially since so much of the rest of the world has it as a major economic or social linchpin.

      Put it another way. Here in the real world, the United States is pretty anti-slavery. But most of our rich and powerful financial institutions have interests of one sort or another in foreign countries or business enterprises that rely heavily on what is de facto if not de jure slave labor. I’m not sure why Braavos would be any different.

      • artihcus022 says:

        1) They actually did try very hard to stamp it out in Pentos, or at least as hard as a small city-state and growing empire can reasonably do so. The fact that someone as bent as Illyrio has to hide it proves it.

        2) Braavos has historically fought fiercely to suppress Volantis which is the true backer and enabler of the Slave Trade. If the Iron Bank is also involved in the slave trade, then that rivalry makes no sense.

        3) If the Iron Bank was as involved with the slave trade that Dany’s crusade would affect them, then GRRM would have mentioned it in Books 4 and 5. What he mentions is that Dany’s crusade hurts Volantis more than anyone. Instead the main concerns in Braavos among the streets and the people Cat of the Canals eavesdrops is the upcoming election, and oh, specifically, that the Ragman Harbor stopped a fleet of slavers capturing Wildlings and released everyone on board.

        4) In the books, the Iron Bank of Braavos dealt with Lord Commander Jon Snow and King Stannis Baratheon in the North, and agreed to trade with Wildlings. And they loathe Cersei.

        In terms of alignment I don’t know how much the books can be clearer about this.

        • artihcus022 says:

          More or less this episode gives more evidence if it was needed why CONFEDERATE should be s–t canned. The showrunners are proving themselves by their misreading of texts, by their projection of fake-a– political allegories to be ignorant of context, and Confederate will truly prove to be the crypto-Alt!Right fever dream that everyone already fears it is.

        • Murc says:

          The fact that someone as bent as Illyrio has to hide it proves it.

          Illyrio isn’t really hiding it at all, as near as I can tell.

          Braavos has historically fought fiercely to suppress Volantis which is the true backer and enabler of the Slave Trade. If the Iron Bank is also involved in the slave trade, then that rivalry makes no sense.

          … why wouldn’t it make sense?

          Braavos as a whole and the Iron Bank in particular are two different institutions which don’t necessarily have overlapping interests or priorities?

          Again, I point to the real world, in which actual-factual governments often have organs within them operating at complete cross-purposes, some of which run counter to the stated goals of the government as an institution or to the broader values of the societies they’re part of. And you also often have private entities whose interests and goals do not necessarily completely with those of either the government or of the society they’re a part of.

          My logic is that the Iron Bank is portrayed as a ruthlessly capitalistic enterprise. This makes me skeptical that they, or their depositors and investors, would completely eschew the slave trade, which generates oceans of money and many investment opportunities, on purely moral grounds. I can see Braavosi society as a whole having this as a strongly held moral and ethical norm, but ruthlessly capitalistic enterprises are typically… ruthlessly capitalistic, and do not give a shit about things like slavery.

          It could be I’m wrong as a matter of pure fact, as Martin can dictate the facts of his universe however he likes. But I don’t feel like my logic is wrong.

          If the Iron Bank was as involved with the slave trade that Dany’s crusade would affect them, then GRRM would have mentioned it in Books 4 and 5.

          I don’t follow this logic at all.

          In the books, the Iron Bank of Braavos dealt with Lord Commander Jon Snow and King Stannis Baratheon in the North, and agreed to trade with Wildlings. And they loathe Cersei.

          What this has to do with the economics of slavery or the historical amorality of capital classes such that they usually don’t give a fuck about such things, I don’t know. The Iron Bank is dealing with Jon Snow and Stannis and the wildlings because there’s money to be made. They loathe Cersei for one reason and one reason alone: she welshed on a debt. That’s it.

          • artihcus022 says:

            Braavos as a whole and the Iron Bank in particular are two different institutions which don’t necessarily have overlapping interests or priorities?

            Within the world of ASOIAF (leaving aside real-world), the Iron Bank is an arm and an extension of the Braavosi state. And in no reality does the crippling, downfall, and destruction of Volantis and her economy, not going to be greeted with a Carnivale on the scale of the Unmasking of Uthero.

            Furthermore even in the real world, financial companies cannot do business openly like that with a rogue state. For the Iron Bank to be involved in the slave trade and for it to be tossed casually by Cersei and not challenged or corrected by Tycho Nestoris or you know treated as a bit of blackmail (which I would still dislike but I can at least buy) means that it’s an open secret. In real-life, US Companies like say Rex Tillerson’s Oil company can’t openly deal with the Putin regime under the current sanctions. It can only happen illegally. Imagine if a guy during the 80s casually mentions the Iran-Contra deal like no big deal…

            My logic is that the Iron Bank is portrayed as a ruthlessly capitalistic enterprise.

            No Littlefinger is portrayed like that, but within the books, GRRM certainly doesn’t fall for that kind of attitude towards all proto-capitalist ventures. You have the Antler Men who gave their lives for Stannis, merchants who risked their livelihood because they chafed under Tyrion and under Littlefinger screwing them over…and the Iron Bank when we meet them are associated positively.

          • Brett says:

            In one of the Quentyn chapters in ADWD, it comes up that Braavosi merchants don’t go to Slaver’s Bay. If there’s no Braavosi mercantile presence in the heart of the slave trade in Essos, then more likely is that any connection between the Iron Bank and the slave trade in Essos is indirect at best – i.e. “they do business with people who do business with slavers”. Which is basically impossible to avoid in Essos, given Braavos’ trade connections to the other cities.

      • undercat says:

        Agreed. There’s no way they directly finance the purchase and sale of slaves, but hey, if a merchant comes to them and asks for a loan to buy Myrish carpets because he’s going to go sell them to New Ghis, the bank might not ask him too many questions about what he’s going to have in his hold on the return trip. After all, there are Braavosi merchants engaging in trade in Volantis in the same building where slaves are literally chained to the walls. Their trading partners probably don’t flaunt it in front of them, out of respect for those ~queer customs of Braavos, but everyone knows what’s going on.

        In addition, the Braavosi do genuinely think slavery is abhorrent and would never, ever tolerate it in their city, but revolutions are destabilizing and thus bad for business.

        As a vaguely related aside, I also don’t think the Braavosi are natural allies of Dany. Whatever her stance on slavery, she’s also a conquering queen of Valyrian descent who has dragons. Her ruling in Mereen is one thing – they’d most certainly trade with Mereen under her rule and possibly prop it up economically (heck, even treat it as a client state of sorts as part of their cold war with Volantis), but if that dragon-riding Valyrian queen ever sets her sights on the Free Cities … they’d be more than a bit leery.

        Actually, in an AU where Dany successfully conquers Slaver’s Bay, stays put and rules there, and engages in a radical reconstruction has really interesting medium and long term implications for the Essosi economy and the balance of power in the Free Cities.

        • artihcus022 says:

          Buying and trading goods dependent on slave labour is not what the show mentions. The episode states clearly that the Iron Bank is affected by the “Slave Trade” itself, i.e. the kidnapping, buying and selling of slaves. The Iron Bank cannot be so affected by a bunch of drops in the sale of carpets for them to be affected by Dany’s revolt.

          If anything the end of the slave trade would benefit the Iron Bank, since it directly destroys and drains the economy of Volantis, their historical rivals and arch-enemies, and of course puts more screws on the fence-sitters which is the clear way of the future. And as for the Braavosi being vary of Dany, that’s suggested in the books, but historically they supported and encouraged the Targaryens and had good relations with them especially since Aegon cut his pre-Conquest teeth in suppressing Volantis. Dany also spent her childhood in Braavos and the Sealord oversaw a marriage contract between her and Oberyn.

          And the Iron Bank have other options than Cersei, they have Jon Snow…and indeed that’s who they turned to in the books.

          And by the way ”Revolutions being bad for business” is pure sophomore Poli. Sci and Economics. The American Civil War and the suppression of slavery led to the expansion of the Industrial Revolution across America and laid the seeds for the prosperity and growth. And the October Revolution especially under Lenin’s NEP also led to growth and expansion of the economy. The Iron Bank of Braavos and the city of Braavos would have far more to gain and expand in a post-slavery Essos than they ever would in the status-quo.

          • Murc says:

            If anything the end of the slave trade would benefit the Iron Bank, since it directly destroys and drains the economy of Volantis, their historical rivals and arch-enemies,

            Volantis is the historical rival and arch-enemy of Braavos. It does not necessarily follow from there that they are the historical rivals and enemies of the Iron Bank.

            The most long-running ideological conflict in the 20th century was that between the USA and the USSR. Despite this, many private capitalist enterprises had significant business and economic interests within communist countries, which they often committed actual-factual treason to pursue.

            And the Iron Bank have other options than Cersei, they have Jon Snow…and indeed that’s who they turned to in the books.

            … they did no such thing. Did you mean to type Stannis Baratheon?

            They didn’t turn to Stannis out of any kind of moral objection to Cersei. At all. They turned to Stannis for one reason; he was willing to give them their pound of flesh.

            The American Civil War and the suppression of slavery led to the expansion of the Industrial Revolution across America and laid the seeds for the prosperity and growth.

            That’s not what people mean when they say “Revolutions are bad for business.” Long term economic growth means jack shit to existing business interests, which are often actively hostile to it.

          • Thrasherlisk says:

            If the Iron Bank was only interested in short term gains, they wouldn’t be involved in betting on international politics.

          • Hedrigal says:

            Essos does not have a sector of its economy where slavery doesn’t predominate. If they engage in commerce, they are tied into the slave trade in one way or another, because that’s how the Essosi economy functions. This isn’t “the price of carpets fluctuating” it’s the entire basis of the essosi economy.

    • Hedrigal says:

      For 1. I actually don’t really have a problem with that. The material interests of profit tend to win out in the long term against any kind of personal feelings for the people involved for long running financial institutions. With the Iron Bank existing in a political economy dominated by the slave system, they are almost certainly going to become tied into it even if indirectly. Even if they don’t accept slaves as collateral on debts, or give loans to direct slave traders, there’s no possible way they could be as powerful as they are stated to be without doing business with large landed property holders, industry, and commercial industries. Which in Essos, are all tied heavily into the slave trade. No matter how much the original founders of Braavos and the Iron Bank would probably cringe at it, they rely on the stability of the Essosi economy, whose stability rests on a foundation of slavery.

      So I would actually argue given the circumstances, it’s fairly realistic that the Iron Bank would end up opposing Dany and the slave revolution in Essos based on material economic factors.

  3. artihcus022 says:

    And the show’s demonization of the Smallfolk is incredible. First they dialed down Stoneheart and the Riverlands resistance to the Lannisters, then they dial down the populism of the Faith Uprising, and now they basically have them portrayed as “sheeple” who willingly go with whatever the ruling people say, so they will accept a terrorist queen, will cheer for an ironborn raider and so on.

    Game of Thrones is perfectly neoliberal in its sentiments. It demonizes and demeans people of the lower-orders, denies any moral structure to any institution and organization and the only idea of politics it has is about personality and hip-posturing, and no substance at all.

    • JG says:

      Benioff and Weiss essentially buy the Lannisters argument that peasants are stupid untermensch slobs that need to be guided by their betters because they don’t know anything.

  4. Disclaimer says:

    I thought the first half of the episode was surprisingly decent, as far as post-S4 interaction and exposition go.

    Then the back half happened.

    ☻ Why is Bran all stoic and devoid of personality? Come on. And his go-to example of his powers is to bring up Sansa’s rape night? Ugh.

    ☻ Greyworm’s fleet took the long way, right? Sailed north, around the Lands of Always Winter? Since that’s the only conceivable alternative to the route Yara/Ellaria were ambushed on, and the only way for Euron to have caught up?

    That, or they embraced their inner Victarion, and sailed over the great grass sea that is Westeros.

    ☻ The Reach should outnumber the Lannisters anywhere from 3:1 to 6:1 right now, even counting Tarly’s defection.

    Ah, but D&D justify it via Olenna’s lamentation that the Tyrells never were good fighters (even though the Reach is the center of Westerosi chivalry and knighthood; Loras and Garlan are among the finest swordsmen in Westeros; etc).

    So close to being a decent episode.

    • Brett says:

      That naval ambush at the Rock is just inexplicable. Did Euron leave a big chunk of his fleet at the Iron Islands when he went to see Cersei, and then somehow send a raven after destroying the fleet with the Sand Snakes on it? Even though Yara stole the Iron Fleet when she left with Theon, and they had to use all their resources just to replace it?

      More “telescoping” and “jobbing”, as Steven called. They need people to be places on their plot outline, and they don’t care about distance or the like in getting them there.

    • John says:

      To your first point, that part was so cringe-inducing. This show has a really poor track record with rape, and this scene just doubles down on that legacy.

  5. Brett says:

    The plotting on this show is as weird as ever. Have the Tyrells and the Dornish deploy, then knock them out in a single episode? Why not just show them disorganized and whatever.

    The Good:

    -Jon and Dany meet-up, and it’s nice to see Jon actually acknowledge that his story is out there to someone who hasn’t seen the actual Others yet (odd that everyone at Winterfell believes him just on his word).

    -Some good 1-to-1 dialogue there, such as Varys and Melisandre’s conversation (loved the look on Varys’ face at the end) and Tyrion and Dany.

    -Ellaria Sand absolutely deserves to be punished for what she’s done, but man that’s rough. The actress acts the hell out of that just with facial gestures.

    – I liked the way Tyrion voiced-over that battle, including the twist with the sewers.

    The Bad

    – WTF is with Jaime’s characterization this season? They’ve literally thrown out all of the development he went through after losing his hand, presumably because the plotting needs him there until the right moment. I’m kind of glad that his conversation with Olenna Tyrell was the last one, and it was nice to see her get that last wound in on him.

    -The show is really making it hard to suspend disbelief on why everyone is following Cersei. They’re all celebrating her triumphs.

    -With all the supernatural stuff and the horn stripped away, Sam’s trip to the Citadel feels rather distracting. Is it literally just going to be him helping Ser Jorah and finding out about the dragonglass?

    – Those shots of the Rock and Highgarden just sucked. If they’re going to do CGI/matte painting/whatever, why not do ones that actually make the castles look like what they did in the books? Instead, we’ve got Generic Big Castle on the cliff for Casterly Rock, and generic castle/chateau on the hill for Highgarden.

    – It was cool that they could do that army shot, though.

    -So, what, did Euron leave a big chunk of his fleet back at the Iron Islands, then send a raven or something to the Iron Islands? Because he hit Yara’s fleet by surprise on the King’s Landing side last episode, and this episode Ironborn loyal to him hit the fleeting carrying the Unsullied from the north.

    • Brett says:

      Oh, I forgot the thing with the Iron Bank. That pissed me off – literally one of the defining features of Braavos is that they’re descended from escaped slaves and do not do slavery. It’s like the screw-ups with the long distance depictions of Highgarden and Casterly Rock, a detail where you wonder why they didn’t bother changing it.

    • Murc says:

      Those shots of the Rock and Highgarden just sucked. If they’re going to do CGI/matte painting/whatever, why not do ones that actually make the castles look like what they did in the books?

      I’ve been complaining about this since Season 1, when the Eyrie was… not particularly impressive compared to the “fuck you mountains, I do what I want” castle it is in the books or in the officially sanctioned illustrations. Ditto the Iron Throne. In the show it’s a not particularly impressive stylized throne, whereas in the books it is this giant, vaguely eldritch pile of dragon-forged metal that literally devours unfit kings.

      It’s like okay, sure. Season 1. Fine. Back then this show as a huge gamble.

      The show isn’t a huge gamble anymore. It is an enormous cultural phenomenon, the biggest success HBO has ever had and the jewel in their crown. They don’t need to play it conservatively and half-ass it anymore. There’s no good reason for Casterly Rock and Highgarden not to look like how they should look.

  6. JG says:

    Nothing made sense. I think you all covered it well here and there’s nothing more to say.

  7. JG says:

    D and D don’t understand the Tyrells at all (except Margaery). Yes, they are roses but roses have thorns. I know this is the show version of Tarly inevitably turning on them in the books but the whole thing was ridiculous. The huge and fertile Reach falls in one offscreen battle? Highgarden offers no resistance? Where are the Hightowers, Rowans, Fossoways, and Redwynes (lol why am I even asking)?

  8. artihcus022 says:

    Benioff and Weiss essentially buy the Lannisters argument that peasants are stupid untermensch slobs that need to be guided by their betters because they don’t know anything.

    I mean I am on board with being vary about appealing to the people and the dangers of unchallenged populism (which is what the Sparrow Uprising is meant to convey, i.e. being both righteous and misguided) but this is going too far. And even in the books, not all the smallfolk is bound up with the Sparrows. And the Iron Bank praising the destruction of the Sept like a Sam Harris-esque triumph of New Atheism against superstition makes me almost wish for the Inquisition to be revived just for him and scum like Hitchens(aka “God sucks, I am good and the Iraq War is totally awesome”) and their perfidious influence.

    a detail where you wonder why they didn’t bother changing it.

    Obviously they changed it because they felt something else they wanted to convey instead. Whether it’s demonizing religion in a childish Sub-USSR propaganda way or expressing their neoliberal crypto-altright views.

    • Hedrigal says:

      In the books? No, the Sparrow movement actually seems very well targeted. Pretty much people who deserve it and who are actually the agents of their suffering.

    • Thrasherlisk says:

      >neoliberal crypto-altright

      I don’t think these words mean what you think they mean.

  9. artihcus022 says:

    I mean the Iron Bank supporting slave trade openly is up there with a change like Ned Stark being openly on board with First Night, which means that Roose Bolton had no reason at all to take Ramsay in since the latter’s mother blackmailed Roosey with going to Ned.

    Or rather it’s up there with what they did to Ellaria and Dorne…a misreading so tin-eared you can only marvel..

  10. Keith B says:

    Of all the people Cersei had killed, or tried to have killed, Ellaria is (to the best of my recollection) the first one who actually deserves it. Cersei is spoiling her perfect record.

    So Jon goes to Dragonstone, refuses to acknowledge that Daenerys is Queen, which is what she explicitly told him to do when she invited him to begin with, then he complains that he’s not allowed to leave. What did he expect? That’s exactly why everyone told him not to go.

    I’m even more convinced than before that at some point Jon will bond with a dragon, making everyone wonder why and impressing the hell out of Daenerys.

    Shouldn’t Melisandre have mentioned that she brought back Jon from the dead, and that the White Walkers are very much real? It might have given Jon some much needed credibility if someone else had backed up his story. Sometimes GOT seems like some comedy of errors, in which someone’s failure to mention an obvious and important point leads to a cascade of misunderstandings.

    Not to mention Bran. If he sees all and knows all, would it kill him to give Sansa some information that might actually be useful?

    Casterly Rock was a major letdown. Compared to Dragonstone it looked pathetic, not at all like the greatest castle in all of Westeros. I suppose the sewer business is a good indication that GRRM will use it in the books, if he ever gets that far.

    It’s good to see the Lannisters making a fight of it.

    Finally we see Bronn. But where is Gendry? Still rowing?

  11. artihcus022 says:

    This episode also did something nearly impossible. It made Ser Davos Seaworth unlikable.

    1) He was hitting on Missandei, bringing up her exotic background and how much nicer dragonstone has gotten since he arrived, which is filled with all kinds of racist-paternalist dirty old man leering.

    2) He was incompetent as a Hand. He doesn’t list Jon’s full titles (King in the North, LC of the NW, The White Wolf). He doesn’t mention that Stannis believed in the Night’s Watch summons and went north or mention how he’s a Southerner who went North and now believes in the Army of the Dead.

    And not so much unlikable as a missed opportunity for drama…

    3) He doesn’t bring up Matthos, his own son. Matthos who died in Tyrion’s wildfire attack in Blackwater Bay. The two are just painted as bros, and Tyrion humble brags about defending KL from Davos as if the lives of the sailors killed in Blackwater Bay, as if Davos’ son didn’t matter.

    And also a double dose of incompetence on both Davos and Jon’s part:

    4) They didn’t mention Maester Aemon Targaryen, Dany’s Grand-Uncle. That would have made her curious and interested about the Long Night right away.

    I mean the whole situation is co contrived and bad.

  12. Why 95% of dialogues are exposition? And why covering breastplates with leather is a good idea?

  13. Ser Tremond Lefford says:

    This is easily one of the most infuriating episodes I’ve seen.

    To start with, D&D’s depiction of Casterly rock is terrible, lacking in any imagination. It just looks like any castle by the sea, even if it has high walls and shit. I watch the show in part to see the splendor and grandeur of Westeros brought to life, and while the show might do well in other places, it really irritates me they just thought they could show any old place for Casterly Rock, the seat of Lannister power we’ve been hearing about forever. I’ve already accepted the show’s nonsensical plot, but I was hoping they’d try to at least show something along the lines of what GRRM has described.

    Highgarden looked slightly better, and the scene had some nice music, but it was hard to appreciate. I was still puzzling over the glaring holes in the plot. I’m sure someone will have a more comprehensive list, but to start:

    Even if Euron split from his fleet and went to KL alone (unlikely, as we see Silence) his fleet still shouldn’t be able to arrive as fast as Grey Worm, right ?

    The Lannister abandoning their ancestral seat of power (to foreign invaders, no less) makes very little sense to me. Especially since its never been taken, and Tyrion probably wouldn’t have tried this if Jaime knew about his sex tunnel, the Lannisters should want to defend their historically impregnable fortress. Even in the show, Robb accepts he must recapture Winterfell when it’s taken, because it shows he’s no king at all if he can’t protect his home.

    Ok, so do the Tyrells even have soldiers ? I thought I saw a few last season when the High Septon was making trouble. I know D&D don’t care that in the books, the Tyrells can field the largest army in Westeros, but they’re supposed to be one of the great houses of Westeros and should at least be able to field enough men to defend Highgarden. Did Olenna already send her army to besiege KL ? That would make slightly more sense.Most of the Tyrells just died in KL. Olenna knows who did it and the Lords of the Reach (if we ever see any besides Tarly?) must at least be suspicious. The Reach just lets a Lannister army march on through to their capitol ?

    What a catastrophe.

  14. I always figured Shireen’s burning accounted for the necessary blood price.

  15. Ser Friendzone says:

    My Spider-Sense went off the moment I saw “written for television by David Benioff & D.B. Weiss.”

    “Ah,” I said to myself “so this will be a week marked by illogical decisions, poor character development, & a lack of understanding of the world.”

    Randyl Tarly leading the Reach to turn against the Tyrells, in order to side with the people who blew up his kinsmen & the holiest place of his religion? Illogical, check.

    Jon telling Davos to stfu about the whole “I came back from the dead thing” may not necessarily be poor character development, but it doesn’t make sense to me. So I’ll give that a check.


    Every time I want to give this show a chance, they find a way to pour salt in the wound.

    D&D, it shouldn’t be physically possible, but you both suck AND blow!

  16. Yet Another Aegon says:

    So maybe I’m the only one who enjoyed the episode.

    The Iron Bank thing bothered me a bit. They could have reconciled their intentions with canon by throwing in a line about how Braavos celebrates the liberation of slaves, the Iron Bank feels that revolutions have a destabilizing effect.

    Dany and Jon was great. Both had valid points regarding their claims, and both made unreasonable requests being that it’s a first meeting. Jon was stunned by her beauty and imposing environment and Dany was impressed that Jon didn’t seem interested in wanting Dany for her claim or her body, he just wants to give his people a chance. After sitting through Dany’s endless string of titles, Davos’ intro of Jon was awesome.

    I had no problem with the toned down castles. Winterfell is a CGI treat but the show has toned down the scale of grandeur from the start. I can’t really fault them for not showing me a Highgarden surrounded by yellow roses and a huge briar maze, or a giant rock/castle/gold mine when GRRM hasn’t even taken us there. Plus, to shoot an exterior battle and not blow the budget, some cosmetic stuff gets changed. I can’t believe this is still a complaint in Season 7.

    I get it. The show doesn’t have the plot complexity, character development, and thematic subtlety that the books do. But if they did, we’d probably be getting ready for season 4 as each script would go through a dozen rewrites and be released 2-3 years apart…you know, kinda like how a certain author likes to take his time to weave all those threads together. I can’t fault the showrunners who took on an adaptation of a series 15 years in with no signs of conclusion. Shorten down any of the books past AGoT and plenty will be lost in translation to a 10 hour season. By now, they’re free from the constraints of the incomplete novels and I like the pace the show is moving.

    I could care less about travel times and travel routes. I spent too much time trying to figure out how Cat and Tyrion meet at the In. Just have the characters be where they need to be and let the audience assume whatever time period they choose to have passed. In my mind the scenes are non linear and it could be hours, days, or weeks between scenes. I don’t think it matters much though.

    Bran is a grown ass man. For some reason, I thought he was subtly reminding Sansa about who sold her to Ramsey, right after LF tipped his hand and said he thinks about ALL possible outcomes and is not surprised. Well, that means he knew exactly what Ramsey was and played dumb when Sansa confronted him in Mole’s Town.

    I thought it was great that we had two poisonings this episode but the scenes cut before either actual death. The description of seeing your child rot away in front of you was chilling to me, as a parent. And Olenna! Man, her confession was 100% cold blooded. Ironically both women struck the first blow by poisoning Cersei’s children and karma came way back around.

  17. Yet Another Aegon says:

    Also, I didn’t get the impression that David was hitting on Missandei. To me, it came off as Davos’ returning to a place he’s known very well, and seeing Dothraki and a woman from Naath greeting him in the sure. Due to her darker skin he was surprised that she spoke the common tongue so well and when she revealed she was from the distant island of Naath and looked at Davos like HE was the newcomer, it led him to comment to Jon about how things have changed. Who hasn’t gone back to their old high school once and thought about how different the place is and how the current students were little shits.

  18. Schneider says:

    The show has ended to me. They totally killed Casterly Rock and Highgarden… I mean, wtf! The supposed greatest fortress in the world. The one that Aegon himself wouldnt take with dragons. Located above the biggest gold mine in the world. And then we see a little castle with white walls in a small cliff! FUCK D&D!
    Then we have Highgarden. The most beautiful castle in the world. Nah… just a tower in a desolated field! FUCK THEM! Im really mad about this lack of aesthetics for those who should be the most impressive castles ever!
    Not to mention the teleporting armies and fleets everywhere… They are rushing the story and crushing it in the process!

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