RFTIT Tumblr Weekly Roundup!


Well, with the big Westerlands essay done, the next writing project is Jaime II of ASOS. That’s going to be a while coming, so in the mean-time, let’s see what we have on the Tumblrs:


19 thoughts on “RFTIT Tumblr Weekly Roundup!

  1. thatrabidpotato says:

    Wasn’t Tansell Too Tall the one that Aerion, the noted monster and lunatic attacked and was reprimanded for? Granted, there should’ve been more punishment than that, but it’s not like his actions were approved of.

    • Space Oddity says:

      Yep. Tanselle’s a rather problematic symbol for why Daeron II wasn’t so great.

      Still, it’s not like there’s some handy counter-symbol of how the Blackfyres are worse we could…

      Oh, hello, Jenny of the Pussywillows. That’s right. You exist.

    • If it hadn’t been for Dunk, nothing would have been done.

      • David Hunt says:

        Beat me to it. THK is one of my favorites of GRRM’s writing. I vividly recall the moral support Dunk got from the Commons all because it was so unprecedented that a knight would actually defend the weak like he had sworn to do. Dunk was surprised by this because he didn’t realize how unheard of it was. Ser Arlan seems to have managed to shield him somehow from the worst example of knighthood.

      • thatrabidpotato says:

        If ifs and ands were pots and pans…

        If it hadn’t been for Dunk, the only real witness would’ve been Aerion himself.

        Moreover, this is all besides the larger point that you’re blaming Daeron for the action of one of his grandsons. Daeron wasn’t even at Ashford.

        • I’m just saying there’s no evidence for Daeron being a populist reformer.

          • thatrabidpotato says:

            Fair enough. But Aerion Brightflame isn’t evidence of him being incompetent or a tyrant.

          • You look at how Daeron raised his kids, and only one of them turned out to be a decent person on that score. Suggestive.

          • Tywin of the Hill says:

            If we start to judge people by their sons, then Quellon Greyjoy is a bloodthirsty warmonger.

          • Sean C. says:

            You look at how Daeron raised his kids, and only one of them turned out to be a decent person on that score. Suggestive.

            What do we know about Aerys or Rhaegel on that score?

        • David Hunt says:

          “If it hadn’t been for Dunk, the only real witness would’ve been Aerion himself.”

          No. The only priviledged witnesses that we know of would have been Dunk and Prince Aegon who ran to get Dunk. Also, you seem to have forgotten that Tanselle was barely a footnote in the Trial. The real point of debate was whether Dunk would be punished for attacking Aerion. Aerion was able to abuse the smallfolk at his whim.

          Maester Steven could probably speak with more authority than me, but it’s seems clear that this is a consequence of only the highborn and knights have rights to any type of due process. The right of pit and gallows means that Aerion could decide that a random smallfolk puppeteer was guilty of treason, set a punishment, and she effectively had no recourse. Whoever her liege was had a theoretical duty to protect her from foreign lords, but (1) that lord was almost certainly in Dorne and not available to intervene to protect his subject, and (2) even if he had been standing 10 feet away, the prospect that he would have intervened for a random smallfolk against crazypants Targ Prince Aerion is laughable, obligations and honor be damned. It seems that it’s a rare thing for nobles of Westeros to even think of their smallfolk as full people. Baelor told Egg that he should have come to him and I believe that he would have actually stopped it, but Baelor was presented as a paragon of knightly honor.

          Finally, even after the trial, Aerion faces no legal consequences for the abuse. He is sent to Essos, but this is because his actions were dishonorable and unseemly. Not because they were illegal. Baelor’s aforementioned ability to stop the abuse didn’t come from some legal protection Tanselle was entitled (not that word) to, but because Baelor was Hand of the King and had the authority to order Aerion around.

          • David Hunt says:

            Arrgh. The last sentence should have been “Baelor’s aforementioned ability to stop the abuse didn’t come from some legal protection Tanselle was entitled (note that word) to, but because Baelor was Hand of the King and had the authority to order Aerion around.”

            I was trying to to draw attention to the forward “entitled” as an indicator that liberties didn’t use to be universal and were mostly reserved for a small portion of society.

          • thatrabidpotato says:

            So…. you’re basically agreeing with me that the only witness other than Dunk was Aegon, who was a small child.

          • thatrabidpotato says:

            And in any case, what you’re doing here is making the case that the medieval justice system was highly flawed and skewed in favor of the nobles, which nobody is disputing.
            What I have been saying is that there is no indication that Daeron was personally vindictive towards the commons or that he raised his children to be so.

  2. Sean C. says:

    While the notion that North and South have differing origins for their dislike of slavery is interesting, the degree of commonality in Westerosi culture from the Wall to Dorne kind of belies that this is necessary. Westeros’ prevailing social mores, apart from the stuff that came in with the Rhoynar, seem to be pretty much the same everywhere, regardless of what religion is practised (see, e.g., kinslaying, guest right).

  3. Grant says:

    On the strength of the Faith, it’s worth remembering that up until about 200+ years ago from the series the Faith was maintaining both a sizable armed force and courts that ran parallel or possibly over secular courts by nobles. In Jahaerys’ time there were people urging him to continue the wars Maegor had been fighting against the Faith Militant.

    So at times prior to the books the Faith definitely wasn’t toothless, and monopolizing most violence and law under secular authorities is probably relatively recent to Westeros. The Faith Militant might have been an additional complication to post-invasion Andals even if it’s not mentioned in WOIAF (and Martin might want to avoid making his world’s backstory even more complicated).

  4. Jim B says:

    I wonder if the “oversimplification” of religion in current Westeros isn’t related to two important features of the world that differ from ours:

    1. The fact that magic (and dragons, and the Children) used to exist but has (until recently) mostly disappeared from the world. Westerosi now either believe that magic used to exist but no longer does, in which case, they must feel a bit like the gods have abandoned the people as well, or the gods are pretty hands-off when it comes to human affairs, or they believe that the stories of magic were all fiction to begin with. Either view would seem to tend to lead to either doubting the gods as well, or at least to more ecumenical and moderate religious views.

    2. The Citadel and the maesters taking over the function of the guardians of knowledge and primary educators of noble children. And while the smallfolk may not have direct contact with maesters, it’s the Citadel who serves the crucial function of predicting the seasons, which leads the nobles to direct the smallfolk as to when to plant, when to harvest, how much to store, etc. Perhaps this is a little circular, because we then need an explanation for how the Citadel took over those functions.

    • fjallstrom says:

      I like this theory.

      1. So once the septons and septas might have had magical powers. Not necessarily from the gods, but still. Then schisms could have been settled by magic fights between the leaders, the winner obviously favoured by the gods.

      2. The maesters (who probably could use some magic too) was iirc already there when the Andals invaded and brought the Seven. So the Citadel didn’t take over that function, they merely kept it.

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