RFTIT Tumblr Roundup, Vacation Edition

godolphin1

Hello everyone! Hope you’re having a good start to the summer; I”m finally getting to enjoy myself, now that grading is over. After spending a week at Godolphin House (pictured above), the Cornwall estate of one Sidney Godolphin, early modern political wunderkind (came to power as one of the few of Charles II’s favorites who actually understood finance, backed James II to the hilt until the opportune moment, then helped engineer the Glorious Revolution of 1688 in exchange for being named First Lord of the Treasury, William Churchill’s right-hand-man in all kinds of diplomatic skullduggery, ended his life as Earl Godolphin), I am now in London, where I’ll be for the next two weeks.

In the mean time, let’s see what’s on the Tumblrs:

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20 thoughts on “RFTIT Tumblr Roundup, Vacation Edition

  1. thatrabidpotato says:

    Like I said on the chapter itself, I still don’t think Euron has been to Valyria, and this being GRRM we’re dealing with, I doubt we’ll ever get a certain answer one way or another.

    Aegon is a fake, stealing what is rightfully Dany’s, and has the gall to offer for her to be one of his polygamous wives. She doesn’t need any more reason than that to crush him.

    • Grant says:

      Stealing what’s rightfully hers? Besides that she’s the one who decided to spend a long time focusing on Essosi cities over the throne she claims as her own, so far as he knows he has the stronger legal claim to the throne. He’s the ‘son’ of Rhaegar and by Targaryen rules the males inherit over the females. It might be more politic to accept a lesser role from her since she has dragons, but so far as our Aegon knows, Dany is the thief who’s going on basis of ‘I should rule over you because dragons trump law’.

      • poorquentyn says:

        Well, Joffrey doesn’t know he’s not the true heir, either.

        • Ethan says:

          That’s not why people think Joffrey is unfit for the throne though, is it. It’s his other sterling qualities.

          • poorquentyn says:

            Well, no, even if Joffrey was a saint, he’d still be unfit for the Throne, because he’s not the heir. Rule of law and all that.

          • Keith B says:

            The Tyrells (at least Mace and Loras) surely know that Joffrey wasn’t the legitimate heir, and they don’t seem to care. The Martells seem to be at least half convinced, and they aren’t too disturbed either. “Rule of law” cuts very little ice in Westeros.

          • Grant says:

            However from Joffrey’s perspective he would just be fighting the unlawful power grab being made by his two jealous uncles. You can’t condemn a guy for doing what is, so far as he knows, the right and lawful thing to do. True, he could abdicate, but what precedent would that set? That the legal ruler can be made to stand aside by a show of force from a relative? I don’t usually see many say that Stannis should have stood aside for Renly even though Renly had the bigger army.

            So it is unfair in Aegon’s case to say that he’s stealing anything, because as far as he knows he really isn’t. And when Daenarys confronts him, will she actually know that he’s not Aegon, son of Rhaegar? Now if Aegon knew that he wasn’t genuine, that would be another discussion.

          • Grant says:

            @ Keith B

            The Tyrells are just using this as their chance to get a Tyrell queen and are hiding behind the claim of Joffrey being a real Baratheon in line for the throne. If it was openly confirmed that he wasn’t, they’d have to oppose him because the very nature of Joffrey’s rule instantly endangers every lord’s hold on power. There’s a reason why it’s Robert Baratheon, not Eddard Stark, who was sitting on the Iron Throne all those years. One’s from the right bloodline, the other isn’t.

            As for the Martells, they aren’t content with it. They’re just going along with the fiction for the moment and I imagine that they don’t really care whether he is or not. Because of what happened to Elia and later Oberyn, they’re just anti-any king not Targaryen.

          • Keith B says:

            Grant:

            Yes, I understand that the Tyrells are only out to further their own political ambitions, and the Martells are using Myrcella as a political pawn for the same reason. That’s really my point. They care nothing about the law, they only care about power, or revenge, or some other advantage for themselves. That’s the attitude of almost everyone in Westeros.

            It’s true that many people in modern America would happily ignore the law if they think it’s to their benefit, but at least here we have judges who actually are obeyed, we have law enforcement agencies that aren’t completely corrupt, and we have many people whose interest it is to care about upholding the law. With very few exceptions, that’s not true in Westeros. As I said, the rule of law cuts no ice there.

          • Grant says:

            Note how the idea of supporting Renly split Robb’s lords, even though Renly was at the time the most militarily powerful. They hesitate and ultimately choose another political goal specifically because, even if Joffrey isn’t the right king, they know that Renly is not the one who can legally take the throne so long as it is claimed by Stannis. And note that the Lannisters cling to the argument that Joffrey is the first son of Robert Baratheon and his wife Cersei.

            The law isn’t something that’s tossed aside. The laws on succession are something that weigh heavily on everyone’s minds because, like I said, once that’s thrown away then instantly everyone’s hold on power is threatened. Any younger brother can raise an army and try to seize lands. Tied into that, any family can claim any land or position for themselves. And no one has the military power to deal with what happens in a continent of endless succession and expansion wars.

        • Grant says:

          Had Joffrey displayed the courage, charisma and other talents of Aegon, I’d have at least felt a lot more pity for him. Yes Aegon has his outburst of anger and childishness at being tricked by Tyrion in their game, but while I’d condemn that, I wouldn’t view it as more reason to decide he shouldn’t rule than Robb’s bit of swordpointing.

      • thatrabidpotato says:

        Aegon may think he’s the true heir, but Dany doesn’t- which is the whole point of what I wrote. There is zero chance of alliance or compromise between him so long as both of them see the throne as rightfully theirs.

    • poorquentyn says:

      At this point, I find it hard to imagine why GRRM gave him a dragon horn, a dragon egg, and Valyrian steel armor if we weren’t supposed to conclude he’d been there.

      • Keith B says:

        Rodrik the Reader’s skepticism hit a nerve, though. If Euron was really telling the truth, and had the dragon horn and Valyrian armor as proof, he’s surprisingly defensive about it. And Rodrik’s been built up as a person who knows things, and whose views we should take very seriously.

        Either Euron has been to Valyria or he hasn’t, but why are we supposed to feel so much shock and awe over the possibility that he has? Gerion Lannister attempted to travel to Valyria. He’s missing and presumed dead, but the fact that he was willing to try shows that the trip was considered at worst highly risky, not suicidal. (And in the show Jorah and Tyrion actually sail through Valyria.) Valyria is supposedly full of demons, but without knowing what these demons actually do, we have no reason to consider them more fearsome than the shadow binders, blood magic workers, Red priests and warlocks we already know about.

        So really, why is it such a huge deal that Euron might have visited Valyria?

        • poorquentyn says:

          Because it’s hell on earth, built up throughout the text as one of the scariest places in Terros. And your examples don’t hold water–Gerion’s trip WAS suicidal, he was a fool for trying, that’s the whole point, and the show is not the books.

          • Keith B says:

            If Gerion landed in Lannisport with Brightroar in his hand, would you change your mind?

            I don’t think there’s been enough build up in the books to show that Valyria is hell. Dangerous, yes. But so dangerous that only a superhuman being could survive? Jorah warns Daenerys that the Smoking Sea is haunted by demons, but only as one of several dangers in sailing west. He doesn’t say “only a crazy fool would go that way.” Half of Gerion’s crew deserted when they found he was sailing for Valyria, but the other half didn’t. Euron says he is the only man who dared to set foot there. But Euron is a braggart and a liar. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see it.

            Euron is a scary dude. But we already knew that. Even before the Aeron chapter, I expected him to destroy the Redwyne fleet, because you don’t give him that big a build up only to have him fizzle. (But if he’s going to destroy Oldtown as well, what’s Obara Sand going to do?) We need to consider why Euron is going on about Valyria. His audience is the Ironborn. He’s trying to build up his (alleged) visit to Valyria as some kind of God-like accomplishment so they will follow him without question. Separately, he’s trying to break Aeron psychologically (either because Aeron is important for some reason, or he just enjoys torturing him; I don’t know which).

            I don’t think Euron was actually in Valyria. There must be some reason why he reacts so badly to Rodrik’s simple two-word question. I know that you (Quentyn) think it’s because it challenges his self-image, but I think it threatens to undermine the blind faith he’s attempting to instill in his followers. After all, why would it threaten his self-image if he knew that he had actually done the deed?

            Nonetheless, if Euron has been to Valyria, it doesn’t build him up beyond what we know already: the dragon horn, the eye patch, the ship full of mutes, hiring the Faceless Man to kill his brother, capturing the warlocks and priests, sexually abusing his other brothers, selling captives into slavery (against all Ironborn tradition), etc. He wants the Ironborn to think it does, and they do because they’re gullible and because, having made him their King, they need to believe in him. They buy into his BS. That’s no reason why we should do so.

      • Agreed. It’s starting to remind me of the old saw about the religious man in the flood.

  2. Aegon the PotHead says:

    Most than anything, Danny strikes me as a SJW. I doubt that after leaving Essos she will wage war with anything other than the Others

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