And we’re back! Apologies for the delay, Scott and my schedules took a weird turn.
If Lord Rickard’s mother was a big sister of old Lord Dustin than Ned is the nearest heir of Lord Willem helps explain why after Lord Hornwood dies without an obvious heir with his only child also dying any House with a claim (Tallharts through his sister or Glovers through his bastard son, etc…) immediately pounces as well as Lady Donella was expected to remarry as soon as possible while Lady Barbrey rules for nearly 2 decades without succession problems or any push to marry by her liege lord. Ned wouldn’t press his claim on Barrowton if he had the strongest claim on Barrowton, he wouldn’t press it because of what he has done to Lady Dustin (rejecting her as a bride, leading her husband to his death, not returning to the North with his bones) and also he has Winterfell to rule. Also it’s unneeded, but old Lord Dustin being Lord Rickard’s mother’s little brother or whatever explains why he fosters Brandon at Barrowton and why he arranges Barbrey to marry new Lord Dustin when he rejects her as a bride for Ned. Plus adds to why Lady Dustin is paranoid and hateful towards Catelyn since she worries that with three sons, Catelyn might press a claim on Barrowton for Bran or Rickon.
Why not just edit out the complaints about the cat background noise? There is a lot of book-hate towards TV Loras, but it doesn’t bother me that much (Renly is better motivator for Brienne and seems to be superfluous to a third-tier character Loras lamenting him to and TV male Tyrells are buffoons and even TV Olenna is dismissive of Loras). Brienne is the more important character although lately she feels like she keeps repeating herself (Pod says Sansa is safe, Brienne disagree plus restating why she’s doing all this despite Catelyn being dead again and again). Although I can never buy Loras and Olyvar as a romantic couple since the guy is a spy who betrays both him and Sansa and in-between then and now Olyvar was totally into the Red Viper. My own hope was that last season that Olyvar would take Satin’s role by being forced to go to the Wall and surprisingly heroic during the battle and Jon recognize it and elevates him causing resentment from the other brothers. Plus Olyvar starting causal gay relationships at Castle Black seems more interesting because man-on-man love in a very traditional all-male intuition is kind of unexplored in the books plus the Wall can always use recognizable characters.
Sansa’s “self-control” scenes reminded me of the same kind of thing she was doing in King’s Landing with Cersei and Joffrey back in Season 2 although she’s tiny bit more confident although in the end of preferred the ones in Season 2 (also preferred Amrita Acharia and Elyes Gabel’s Dothraki soft crush in Seasons 1 and 2 than the current one between Jacob Anderson and Nathalie Emmanuel. Get they need Grey Worm and Missandei to do something but feels they are pushing a bit too hard now). Last season some people complained about “Dumb Littlefinger” but I get the case for why the show did it for the sake of giving Sansa more agency. Yet this season Sansa is again Littlefinger’s puppet where she is follows along with any dumb idea he comes up with without even telling her what he wants to do until she’s in the middle of it and no real reaction when she learns about it. I kind of wish that Sansa had a line to Littlefinger that she wants to stay in Winterfell because “there must always be a Stark in Winterfell” or whatever. Like she knows that Ramsay and Roose are insane, but Winterfell matters more rather than just wondering around the grounds. Maybe that is going inside her mind, but I like me some overtness.
Oops, posted the same comment twice. Sorry about that and hope you can just delete the first one.
– The Wall plot is, by far, the best part of the show this season. I find the turnaround quite remarkable here, given that I found both the Wall characters and the Dragonstone characters to be very inconsistently written in the past. Stannis, especially, has suddenly become more or less remarkably like the book version. I really like Stannis/Sam scene — Stannis comes looking for the Tarly boy who killed a White Walker, reasonably assuming this must say something about his martial prowess, but finds…Sam instead, and can see the value in him too. It’s a nice moment for both characters. And it finally has Stannis mention the White Walkers — I was wondering if that angle had been dropped entirely, given how he’d been wholly fixated on the Boltons in previous episodes.
– And apparently we are getting the Oldtown plot after all. I’m kind of surprised, but there must be something really important there.
– The Winterfell plot remains a showcase for great acting, and completely illogical characterization and plotting. Sansa’s behaviour makes no sense (she’s supposed to be charming Ramsay, but she acts hostile the entire time through; this is nothing we haven’t seen before in King’s Landing), and I’m not nearly as optimistic as Steve that this is going to lead to her actually doing anything (when the construction of the plot basically dictates that she fail). Particularly when they’ve still got her walking down dark kennels full of vicious dogs at the word of some random chick she just met that there’s a mystery surprise at the end.
– I liked the stone men sequence, and the Tyrion/Jorah interactions, though the whole idea of them traveling to Meereen in that little boat is a concession to production realities that I find a bit hard to swallow.
I never get Littlefinger’s line about charming Ramsay when all Sansa has been doing after the first arrival at Winterfell scene is overt “You’re bumming me out” or “Eww, that’s disgusting” faces to Ramsay which are feeling she should have, but that isn’t really “charming” him. Not that Sansa is some warrior woman, but she’s not in the same position as Fake Arya Stark and I thought the show would want her “owning her power” more, a contrast to Arya this season losing her identity and being less of a Stark while Sansa becomes more of Stark since she was kind of the least Starky Stark to begin with. It’s not really the book version of her arc, but I was fine going there. But I’m not feeling that right since she can seem so unsettled one moment and the next burning Fat Walda. Or is she suppose to be manipulating Ramsay like Sansa/Alayne was doing to Harry the Heir in that recent TWOW preview chapter because that isn’t really happening either (at least for me). Is Sansa suppose to seem interested in doing bad things to win over Ramsay which (discounting her lying for Joffrey that ended up in Lady’s death in Season 1) is very unlike that character (see what she did for Ser Dontos back in Season 2) plus it would just be a weaker version of what they already did with Margeary manipulating Joffrey during Seasons 3 and 4 (the crossbow scene was Margaery’s best scene so far in my humble opinion). Or is Sansa suppose try to make Ramsay a better person (good luck with that) but that seems like a weaker version of Arya bringing out some humanity in The Hound during Season 4 or what Brienne did for Jaime during Season 3 and as type it I know that isn’t the plan. The Hound and Jaime’s misdeeds don’t trump that the show had invested in them as characters to care about while Ramsay, fun as he can be sometimes and sorry for his daddy issues, just isn’t. Probably some brilliant option I’m not seeing at the moment, but I’m finding that the characters of Ramsay and Sansa (without bringing any book-reader baggage) just don’t mesh. I don’t want them as a couple (eww, that’s disgusting), but just trying to get something out of their current mutual storyline.
Only thing i can see is sansa joining in myranda’s torture after myranda attacking sansa,this a result of myranda’s failed attempt to get sansa to kill reek!
Hell maybe ramsay is the one who put myranda up to showing reek to sansa in the kennels,maybe the old serving lady is working for ramsay,maybe sansa is totally in over her head….reek to the rescue with pod ending up in a cage wearing brienne’s skin as a cloke or vice versa…..who the hell knows….exciting isn’t it 🙂
LOL to SEK ‘admiring’ Dany’s taking the direct dragon approach to KL style passive-aggression.
And yeah, Dany has a lot of the “Targaryen” syndrome all right-which is why as I’ve said before she’s not my first choice to rule Westeros and why I don’t think it’s a good idea for her and Jon to do anymore ‘inbreeding’ there. Can’t deny that it’s impressive though.
LOVED the transition to Aemon and his lamenting the ‘lone Targaryen’ just as Jon shows up. It’s always been a big regret for me that Aemon never learned the truth about Jon since it would have meant so much to both of them-but sometimes I wonder if the mentoring Aemon provided-his paternal attitude may have been from a subconscious recognition.
Man SEK’s cat doesn’t like these podcasts does he? One of my cats has a habit of demanding attention anytime I’m on the phone.
The Wall is now definitely the best part of the show-and yeah that is funny considering how much you guys were just bitching about it in Season 2. “All roads lead to Winterfell” indeed. In fact I think that’s where Jaime will be headed to by the end of this season thanks to a summons from Brienne. And the legitimate differences of opinion between Jon, and Tormund, and Olly, and Edd and the incredible drama and stakes of what’s going on beyond the Wall with the Undead Army makes King’s Landing seem so freaking petty by way of comparison.
Stannis as Grammar Nazi. Of course he is!
I think Pod and Brienne were supposed to be in Winter’s Town.
Yeah, Theon at this point mentally identifies as Reek, though I think Sansa’s gonna try to change that. Would be pretty ironic if Theon’s foster sister succeeds in reaching him when his own blood sister failed.
And yep, Sansa’s greatest strength has always ALWAYS been her self-control. Which makes for a very interesting contrast in comparison to Cersei who doesn’t belong in the same sentence as ‘self-control.’ And she’s definitely in “watch and observe” mode right now to figure out what levers are at her command.
And yeah, “blowjob” was my first thought too-or doing something to one of Theon’s fingers.
Roose/Ramsay family hour was just perfect. Controlled icy sadistic psychopath with uncontrolled sadistic psychopath. God I can’t WAIT to see this House get extinguished.
And yeah, the Boltons don’t quite understand their fellow Northmen. If they had they never would have tried the Red Wedding.
Yeah, we’re all very fearful for Shireen right now. But it could be they’re setting it up for Stannis to die instead so we can see Shireen mourn. Or maybe Selyse dies. I’ll say that if Shireen is given to the flames then I’d kinda prefer that Stannis fall in battle or be killed by Brienne or something but not live to hear the news.
The whole sequence in Valyria was magnificent and a new height for the show, IMO. The ruins of Valyria, the poetry recitation, their reactions to Drogon, and then the attack by the Stone Men…it was Just Perfect. IG and PD were so good together, and Tyrion’s voyage on the show is an immense improvement over the books.
Plus they totally fooled me the first time with the fade to black moment.
Tyrion mentions in S1ep4 that there’s a brothel outside the walls of winterfell but i also thought wintertown.
Am i the only one who thought broken finger time & not blowjob time?…some people have dirty minds i guess…
With Ramsay, it could easily have been blow job WHILE finger flaying.
I think that scene was really out of character for Ramsay. He does not have the subtly to show mercy. Torturing people is what is fun for him. Also, playing games where they think they can escape. Hence why he hunts girls, only to rape and flay them at the end of it.
There is something to a villain who manipulates emotions to achieve his ends. Ramsay is not that
On another note, I assumed the Brienne and Pod were at a small village outside of Winterfell, which served functions and people who do not get to live or stay in the castle itself. So, Wintertown, by any other name.
Hurray,i been pulling my hair out waiting for my LGM GOT podcast!!
Excellent as always,easily the best episode of the season so far.
On what you said about the dragons being the ones to judge the guilty or innocent what if dany were to introduce tyrion to her boy’s expecting a roasting but instead we get a twist on the brown ben plumm deal with the dragon’s liking tyrion?
Another thought i had while watching this episode was that old servant lady in winterfell,i’m not so sure she’s genuine,remember season 3 with ramsay pretending to be a helpful serving boy only to bring theon back to the dreadfort in that horrible but totally awesome scene,what if brienne’s message has been delivered to someone else & we’re being lead in the wrong direction?
Also could brienne take the place of the spearwives?
With mellisanrde going south with stannis maybe sireen goes up in smoke for someone else’s resurrection?…the only candidates i can think of are stannis & sansa,if its sansa(stoneheart)stannis needs a stark,would he give the go ahead?….the most tragic thing i could think of is yes he does & then finds out that rickon is alive & well….new lord commander of TNW???
I hope i’m wrong on that last what if,GOT is super exciting again after that ending to S5ep4!!
I don’t believe that Stannis would sacrifice Shireen to resurrect Sansa. He loves her more than anyone else in the entire world. The only possible reasons he MIGHT be willing to burn her is to wake the Stone Dragon and/or to bring forth the true Lightbringer. Shireen is definitely Stannis’ best fit for Nissa Nissa from the Azor Ahai myth. I can see a man as obsessed with duty as Stannis sacrificing his daughter to save the world. He’d never forgive himself, but I can see him doing it. It’s the type of guilt that might drive a man to tack the Black after it’s been revealed that someone else is actually AA Reborn.
And may all the gods protect Selyse if she sacrifices Shireen without consulting Stannis. Stannis would throw Selyse onto the fire with his own hands.
Well as this is the show we gotta cut away all the AA,Nissa nissa & stone dragon(Jon snow)stuff & i agree Stannis on his own would never give the greenlight for such a thing to happen to Shireen(i spelt her name wrong in my OP,argh)but with Mel hammering it home that this is what the LOL wants,needs to save the realm yada yada it could happen.Mellisandre is wrong alot of the time & instead of a duty bound stark,we get a revenge filled insane living zombie woman who needs to run into LF again after hanging lots of frey’s.
I think Selyse would want a burning….i say chop her head off or string her up,if Shireen goes poof in smoke i hope stann the man & Davos are not there to see it!
Sansa’s charms would work in the book narrative, since it’s with Harry. Why show LF thinks her marriage to Ramsay must involve charming him is bizarre. Clearly her skill set is not prepared to deal with torture-loving lunatic, hence the looks of disgust. I honestly can’t figure out what her manipulation would involve.
Hunting down myranda with reek in tow?,honestly i think sansa is way out of her depth in this case(thanks LF)…something very bad is going to happen to her methinks!,unless she starts liking BDSM & flaying.
Why show LF thinks her marriage to Ramsay must involve charming him is bizarre.
Because show LF has somehow not heard about how Ramsay likes to ride around the North flaying people, even though he traveled hundreds of miles through the North to get to Winterfell.
Kill the boy? Kill the cat!
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