Video Podcast of Game of Thrones, Season 4 Episode 10, “The Children”

And here’s our last podcast for Season 4: an hour and 18 minutes of in-depth discussion of what, for my money, was the best season finale for HBO’s Game of Thrones!

In terms of future plans – we do have the last two episodes of Season 1 in the can and will have those up shortly. Thereafter, we’re going to buckle down to the difficult task of assessing Season 2 of Game of Thrones (which IMO is definitely the weakest season so far) and figure out where things went wrong.

Check it out!


74 thoughts on “Video Podcast of Game of Thrones, Season 4 Episode 10, “The Children”

  1. Winnie says:

    Enjoyed this as always though, I disagree on a couple points.

    1. Cersei’s irrationality in her scene with Tywin. First of all it made sense to me that she’s refusing now to marry Loras, because she’s already got what she wants-Tyrion’s upcoming execution. She was only playing nice before to make sure Tyrion died. But her making such a crazy threat to Tywin was I think the whole point-Cersei is not being rational, she is dangerously unstable and ultimately short sighted and self destructive and all that comes to a head next season.

    2. Jaime/Tywin’s scene. I actually liked that better than you did because I prefer the notion that in the incredibly fucked up Lannister family dynamics there was at actually one functional relationship-namely the brothers who really do love each other flawed as they are. Jaime’s sense of guilt next season over the role he inadvertently played in his father’s death should be interesting and he may well regret freeing his brother but I think D&D made the right choice keeping the J/T relationship untarnished at the end. (It also makes Jaime a more complicated and sympathetic character than even when he was his old arrogant Douchebag self he was still oddly devoted to his disabled baby brother.) They can’t burn every decent thing about these people down, if they want us to keep caring. Besides viewers mostly forget Tysha anyway. As for what Tyrion was thinking going up the stairs…I don’t think he was thinking. I think he was in turmoil wanting to confront his father or Shae, (maybe ask her to go with him,) but he hadn’t been PLANNING on murder at that point.

    • 1. That’s a good point, and I think it will seem a bit more in-character when seen in light of Season 5. However, I think this is another case of the Sept Scene fucking things up later. Had that scene been what it was supposed to be, I think this wouldn’t have come off as weird as it did.

      2. I guess, the issue is – what’s going to provoke Jaime into breaking with Cersei?

      • Winnie says:

        1. I think it’s better we all pretend the Sept scene didn’t happen since apparently the director literally didn’t understand what he’d filmed and the show’s ignored it since.

        2. That’s a good question-possibilities range from the failed siege of Dragonstone, her failure to stop the Iron Born to spite House Tyrell, learning about Lancel (and a possible abortion), her antics towards Margaery, some failed Dornish plot, and of course Brienne.

        • 1. In my fan edit, I will cut immediately after their kiss.

          2. Given that the High Septon and Septa Unella are both on the cast list, I think Cersei’s storyline ends either at her getting arrested (hell of a cliffhanger!) or the Walk of Shame.

          • Winnie says:

            Comments made by Lena make me think it will be the Walk of Shame. Then they’ll save FrankenGregor at the trial by combat for the beginning of Season 6 the way they saved Joffrey’s death for the beginning of this season.

            And I will be telling my mother, (who won’t see Season 4 until the dvd comes out,) to cut after the kiss-or hopefully the producers will be smart and cut it out themselves for the dvd.

          • Yeah, although I think we’ll get a lot of creepy stuff where Cersei is feeding women to Dr. Qyburn’s creation and he subtly becomes a bigger and bigger presence in the show.

          • Actually, the cut on the DVD will be quite interesting, since they didn’t know the audience reaction before it aired but now they do.

          • Winnie says:

            Yeah. IF they’re smart they’ll edit out the whole thing and pretend it never happened.

            The only good thing to come out of the whole debacle was that the fan outcry over that, (and objections to the graphic nature of the rape scenes at Craster’s place,) might convince them to tone down such scenes in the future or do away with them altogether. Which if we’re going to get more Iron Born and Ramsay next year, we will probably need. I don’t know if they’ll do fArya but I’m almost certain there will be a girl who Ramsay abuses, (possibly just some new victim he plans to take ‘hunting’) whether it’s Jeyne Poole or not, that will be the impetus for Theon’s escape-and the beginning of his redemption. And if so, I’d prefer NOT to have to watch too many graphic details of her suffering first or what the poor people of the Shield Islands have to endure thank you very much. Hell it may convince them to be careful how they film Cersei’s Walk of SHame too, since that will also be a hard scene to watch even if it’s handled with sensitivity.

          • Yeah…really don’t know what they’re going to do with Fake Arya – especially given where Theon’s plotline ended this season, there’s little else for him to do. And it’s not like Stannis is going to send Mance (BTW, I think they definitely skip the magic gems thing) to save Theon. I guess they could show her getting off the boat, but it’s not like we have any known female character to hand.

          • Son of fire says:

            jaime’s going to dorne not the riverlands in s5
            i think cersei & jaime’s s5 story will end with jaime finding the kingmaker page & then being ordered to bring the riverlands under control after they break up due to cersei having margaery locked up & not seeing she needs the tyrell’s

          • Yeah, I’m doubtful about that – a lot of audition scenes never get filmed.

    • Jack says:

      1. Up until this point I don’t really think the show has really portrayed Cersei as being that unstable so it was kind of jarring here. Many of the things she does in the books like killing all the bastards are given to Joffrey so she comes off as a little more composed.

  2. Karl says:

    What are your thoughts on the Greyjoy plotline? this spoiler: doesn’t have Euron or Victarion listed, which suggests to me the entire thing might be cut.

    I *thought* sending Yarsha to rescue Theon was just a convenient way of giving her a reason to be in the north and therefore be in a position to be taken captive by Stannis & co- but that’s not how it played out. Balon is still alive as well, which feels (to me) like Melisandre’s credibility is damaged. How do you think this will play out? Are we going to skip the entire Iron Islands drama, and maybe have Yarsha take up Victarion’s role?

    • Winnie says:

      I think Balon will die next season-or that word of his death will come out even if we don’t see it on screen. I’m not sure how much of the IB story if any will make it. Damphair will be out and Victarion too I’m guessing since Dany already has enough boats to get to Westeros. Euron *might* make the cut but in a scaled down format-we might even just hear of him without seeing him on screen at least for Season Five. (I think Euron might be the Big Bad for TWOW and Season 6.)

    • That’s a partial cast list, and a bit old news.

      I’ve read reports that they’ve scouted locations in Northern Ireland for the Kingsmoot, so I don’t think we’re losing anything there.

      If they’re doing the Sand Snakes, they’re doing the Kingsmoot.

      • Winnie says:

        Hadn’t heard that bit about the Kingsmoot, but I’m glad to hear it! I think at least some of the IB storyline should make it to the show-but not fAegon since it steals Dany’s thunder and they have to make cuts SOMEWHERE.

        • No fAegon is tricky – he’s a HUGE part of Varys’ plotline, has important consequences for the King’s Landing plotline, etc.

          • Winnie says:

            Maybe. I still say it was a mistake on Martin’s part to put him in the books-and depending how far the show is willing to go afield they might cut him altogether and have Varys and Dorne throw their support behind Dany.

            Of course they made a point of mentioning the GC by name, but on the other hand that would be two fewer characters-and D&D have made ominous promises of negative population growth for next season.

            Guess we’ll just have to wait to see the full cast list to be certain either way.

            I guess ultimately it comes down to what impact if any Aegon has in books Six and Seven. After all the Lannister dynasty crashes with or without him and things can go crazy in KL regardless-but he MIGHT have other effects that shape Westeros that can’t be so easily replicated. We shall see. PErsonally, though, my problem is it’s impossible to ever see fAegon as any real threat to Dany when she’s got her dragons and the Unsullied. At least Euron’s a proven pirate with storm magic.

          • Given the source material he was working from, a Wartin Purbeck was always part of the plan. Honestly, I think arguments that he’s fake are kind of BS – the mummer’s dragon goes all the way back to ACOK. He’s part of Dany’s destiny. And there’s no evidence Euron actually has storm magic.

          • JT says:

            I’m sure Aegon will appear on the show, but not necessarily in Season 5. I think it’s likely we learn about Aegon second hand. First we hear about another Targaryen invading Westeros, and then learn Varys has been working on his behalf, but we don’t actually *see* Aegon until season 6.

            This saves a little bit of $ in casting, lets the producers cut out the middle part of Tyrion’s travelogue, and builds Aegon up for season 6.

          • Quite possibly. I think it depends on where the KL storyline ends up – if S5 ends with Cersei arrested, then Aegon’s definitely in Season 6. But if the Walk of Shame is in Season 5, then Aegon in Season 5 is more likely.

      • JT says:

        The only positive thing about Yara’s absurd Seal Team 6 type mission to rescue Theon is that we’ll get a really nice moment next year (or what passes for one on this show) when Theon “remembers his name” and recognizes his sister.

        I’m still confused how the relatively small Ramsay managed to fight off “the best killers in the Iron Islands” without armor or even a shirt. Hopefully Euron and Victarion show why the Ironborn are feared/hated.

        • Because there were 50 of them in a castle filled with 600 Bolton men? There’s a limit to what a Seal Team can do when their stealth mission is compromised by Theon’s freakout.

          • JT says:

            No, Theon’s freakout actually fit the plot well, as did Yara’s cutting her losses and leaving when it was clear that Theon wouldn’t go. It was mostly the fight scene where Ramsay killed a bunch of Ironborn fighting all-stars without wearing a shirt that had me shaking my head…

          • WPA says:

            You could argue that there’s the psychological factor at work there. A gleefully, unsettlingly, cheery man with heavily armed reinforcements, half naked and covered in what look like bleeding fingernail marks swinging around his weapons in a melee is probably unsettling to say the least. Not too far off from a berserker and not the sight you expect to greet you..

  3. S. Duff says:

    No one expects the Stannis Inquisition!

  4. Maddy says:

    I pretty much hated all the Cersei stuff this episode. Her telling Tywin doesn’t make any sense to me and they were playing it like it was this tenuous move. And the Cersei/ Jaime scene was what I hated the most about this episode for … obvious reasons. In case anyone was still in any doubt, it’s obvious that scene in the sept was a screwup (which in no way excuses it). It doesn’t help that it’s the same director.

    I knew they weren’t going to do the Tysha reveal although it did annoy me at first. I wish we got Varys leading Tyrion through the tunnels or at least some connecting scene. How did Tyrion know how to get in there through the floor?

    I really didn’t like how they handled the Shae scene. They effectively silenced her and gave her no chance to explain herself or for the audience to feel at all conflicted about Tyrion killing her (although they obviously should regardless). I agree that it wasn’t self defence but the fact that it came off that way to so many people is an issue, and the fact that they don’t seem to be brave enough to topple Tyrion from his ‘fan favourite ‘ status.

    Loved pretty much everything at the Wall though, and Arya and the Hound. Rory Mccann’s acting in his ‘death’ scene was amazing and that was by far my favourite scene.

    • Maddy says:

      *genius move sorry

    • I dunno about “brave enough.” For all that people seem to think that making Tyrion a villain is a bold move, I’ve found perishingly few people who actually like Tyrion’s storyline in ADWD and you can’t have one without the other.

      • Maddy says:

        You’re right that’s probably reading too much into it. It’s understandable from an adaption perspective. I do hope they explore the psychological ramifications of his actions next season though. I’m definitely looking forward to Peter a Dinklage and Iain Glenn in scenes together. And I like Varys going with Tyrion, since we didn’t get nearly enough Varys this season.

    • Jack says:

      I think the show actually does portray Shae’s death as pure self defense on Tyrion’s part. And without there being any hint that she was threatened into betraying him show watchers are left the impression that she threw him (and Sansa) under the bus purely because she was angry about him sending her away.

  5. Maddy says:

    Also apparently Qyburn is going to be in 5 episodes next season according to the actor. Which is great – that actor is perfect. Both kindly and creepy under the surface.

      • WPA says:

        Yeah, he really seems to have taken the initial book description of him looking like, “Some child’s favorite grandfather.” in appearance and demeanor and ran with it. Also getting a Dr. Kevorkian vibe with him- perfectly pleasant to be around as long as you understand the “need” for his “work” and particular set of skills.

        His reaction to the revelation of Oberyn using Manticore venom also smacked of, “Oh my! A Manticore man, have to respect a man who knows his Manticore.”

  6. Maddy says:

    Cersei telling Tywin doesn’t make any sense to me from a character perspective. It feels like a thing they did because they knew Tywin was going to die and they wanted a final scene with those actors.

    • Matthew says:

      It does make sense. Cersei’s problem is that she only ever thinks one step ahead. She wanted Tyrion dead so she played nice with father until that happened. Now that his death is assured, she doesn’t need anything from him and she feels like altering the deal.

      She has accomplished her first objective.

      Her second, ancillary objective, is to stop the marriage with Loras and stay in King’s Landing, She also wants to hurt Tywin’s feelings since she resents the fact that he wants to pimp her out again.

      The fact that anything that compromises Tywin would be bad for her in the long run, doesn’t enter into her mind. She’s only thinking in terms of the current standoff with her father.

      • Maddy says:

        Cersei isn’t the best at forward planning but she would never admit to that information to anyone except Jaime. And Jaime is the one who is careless and wants to get married not Cersei. I’m really not sure I can pin the book character motivations to the show anymore though.

      • Ok, I like that a bit better.

  7. Winnie says:

    I agree. Its one thing to have our favorite dwarf go through a dark patch but making him outright evil (like in the books) means fans no longer give a damn. They have to keep us a little sympathetic to him at least or what’s the point? Frankly I think its an improvement on what Martin did.

  8. Jack says:

    What did you think of the Entertainment Weekly interview where D&D said they didn’t think of Tywin as evil but rather lawful neutral. I mean I get that he’s not sadistically evil like Joffrey, but lawful neutral?

    Also I saw the bonus features video where GRRM talks about the way Stannis’s motivations change after Davos presents him with the letter and it just further emphasizes the way D&D have mishandled his arc. Having him realize that the true war is in the north at the end of S3 only for him to say nothing else about it for an entire season is as weird as throwing a rape scene into the middle of Jamie’s redemption arc.

    • Mr Fixit says:

      Nah, Stannis is LN, TYwin is LE 🙂

      • JT says:

        Would anybody in the books who’s in a position of power be lawful good? Ned is honorable, true to his word, and enforces justice fairly, but he’s enforcing the laws of an unjust system.

        Dany seems to be the only person really trying to change an unfair status quo on a large scale, but she goes back and forth between burning the old order to the ground to build a new order and ineffective half measures.

        • I think that goes a bit too far. Not every LG person in a feudal world has to be an instant revolutionary, they just have to think the law is just by their own lights. I’d argue that Ned choosing to spare Cersei and her kids is an example of him placing goodness above the law when he considers the execution of children to be wrong.

          • JT says:

            So Barristan, Robb, and Brienne would also be examples of Lawful Good?

          • Barristan and Brienne, absolutely.

            Robb, I would say Neutral Good.

          • Sean C. says:

            The Starks apart from Arya all start out as Lawful Good (she’s more Chaotic Good). Bran is the only one who has remained there in the series to date, I would say (we’ll see what happens with him in the next book).

          • I think Bran is complicated a little bit with the whole Hodor possession thing. Also, druids have to be neutral. Or at least they did when I started playing D&D.

        • Jack says:

          I’d say Dany is more of a chaotic good character since she is trying to change certain status quos whereas Ned and Robb are Lawful good since they try to act as good as they can within a system that they both recognize as being very flawed.

  9. WPA says:

    Is anyone else impressed by Davos’ appearing as Stannis’ more aggressive foil upon their encounter with Jon and Mance? It’s neat in showing an element of how power and symbolism is exercised by someone like Davos- to date one of the friendliest people in the series. He shows up, lays down the proprieties of title, “He’s Your Grace” barks at Jon that, “You’re speaking to the One True King, boy!” , manages to come off as so much more aggressive that Stannis, STANNIS (“he who is notoriously without mercy”) appears magnanimous and extremely polite. Granted Stannis, post-major military victory is probably in as good of a mood as he gets, but the role reversal was striking.

    • Winnie says:

      Yeah, that is interesting. Just underscores again how loyal Davos really is to Stannis. It’s going to be interesting to say the least to see Davos try to work out NW vows of neutrality with their attitude to Stannis and the Northerners attitude to the the IT in general.

      As you point out, Stannis post military victory is probably the best mood he’s ever in-in fact what was striking is that seemed to be the first time on the show Stannis seemed at ease. It was like this riding a charge into battle, no frills or courtly fuss, just the cavalry charge, was one thing he *did* know how to do-and do well, and he was enjoying it. In some ways, Stannis might be more comfortable in the austere and blunt North than he ever could be in King’s Landing.

    • David Hunt says:

      Well, Mance is King Beyond the Wall and was never a subject of any King who sat on or was entitled to the Iron Throne. I recall how he was quick to make sure that Jaime’s style of “Ser” was included in his open letter declaring that Joffrey and his siblings were Jaime’s children by incest. The way that I saw it was that Mance had the right to invoke his kingly prerogative not to kneel to anyone and Stannis always being aware of proper decorum accepted that right but pointed out that it could have an influence on the Wildlings’ treatment. Of all the people in Westeros calling themselves kings, Mance is the only one that Stannis might allow he deserves the title. The lands beyond the Wall were never ruled by the Iron Throne. Of course, Mance is an oathbreaker as he deserted from the Night’s Watch, but Stannis doesn’t have any technical authority over them either and he might not know Mance’s history with them.

      Hey, I just remember a comment from an early Davos chapter in ACOK where Davos notes that Stannis knew the strength of every noble house in Westeros down to a man. I wonder if that included the Night’s Watch.

    • Yeah, I liked that. Davos would be rather insistent about Stannis being the one true king, given how he acts when Stannis isn’t there and there’s a good chance he’d get killed for saying it.

  10. Sean C. says:

    The show has been whitewashing Tyrion for a long time, but the way they handled his story in this episode takes the cake. Nowhere was this more laughable than when Tyrion killed Tywin because he called Shae a whore, just after Tyrion murdered Shae, and even though Tyrion himself called Shae a whore the last time he saw her. Though, of course, the series made Shae’s murder a self-defense killing, in the ultimate indignity. It’s especially ridiculous that the writers talked about making Shae a more sympathetic character, and then turned the denouement of her story into a “bitches be crazy, yo” moment (note that even as people behind the scenes say that Shae was coerced, within the show itself it’s still played as petty revenge for him dumping her, and coercion is never addressed at all, nor is Shae given any POV; she doesn’t even get to try to explain herself at the end).

    In an age where antiheroes, and even antivillains, are the dominant figures of prestige cable drama, the way the writers consistently refuse to have Tyrion be anything other than a flawless hero is especially cowardly.

    Other than that atrocious segment, I mostly liked the finale. I’m not sure Bloodraven appears to have two eyes after talking about his nickname as having “a thousand eyes and one”, but otherwise I think the writers have to be glad they’ve gotten Bran to a point in the story where something interesting might happen. Also interesting that they kept Meera around after killing Jojen, so I guess there’s more for her to do.

    Ciaran Hinds was entirely unimpressive as Mance Rayder back in season 3, but I liked his scenes here much more. I said in the comments regarding episode 9 that the Wall’s solo episode suffered from the comparative absence of well-defined characters there, so the appearance of all the new people livens things up a lot, and I liked the first Jon/Stannis interaction.

    • Maddy says:

      I don’t really like how they handled Shae either (although frankly I don’t think it’s that much better in the books) but I think you can definitely read into Sibel Kikelli’s performance in the trial that there is an element of coercion. Tywin commands for Shae to be brought to his chambers in episode 2. Smart viewers can put it together. I hoped this would be handled better than the book but alas.

      I definitely agree with you about them taking out her lines in the last scene. At least give her something. And Tyrion getting upset at Tywin calling She a whore after. He just murdered her infuriated me (although I guess it was supposed to be?)

      • JT says:

        I didn’t see anything with Shae about coercion. It came across very clearly to me as “a woman scorned”, which was bizarre considering Tyrion dumped her to save her life (and gave her that as a reason). Add in the fact that she grabbed a knife, and Tyrion comes out looking like a hero.

        In the books her motivation is much more clear – Shae is in it for the money, and when Tyrion can no longer pay as much as Cersei can, Shae jumps ship. Then she attaches herself to Tywin, who can continue to support her.

        • Maddy says:

          I think it’s there but maybe I’m giving them too much credit. Sibel Kikelli described it as a mix of blackmail, revenge and coercion. Even if you think she was just doing it to get back at Tyrion it’s pretty clear who the puppet master was. There is no way she came up with all that by herself.

          I agree they could have done a much better job at getting that across. It doesn’t justify what Tyrion did to her but then could have made her motivations clearer. The misogynstic ‘she deserved it’ response was always going to happen, but the show itself aided that response unfortunately.

        • Tywin has her hauled off a ship and taken to his tower in 4×03.

      • Matthew says:

        Wait, wait, so husbands who beat their wives don’t object when other people insult those same wives?

        It’s perfectly in character for Tyrion to kill Tywin over the whore comment.

        Tysha was a woman who he loved, who turned out to be a whore (or not.) She was abused by Tywin.

        So now you have Shae, who he loved. Who he thought was more than a whore. When it turned out she wasn’t, he killed her. But Tyrion also knows that, if not for Tywin’s intervention, she might have stayed with Tyrion.

        I took Tyrion killing Tywin to be his way of saying, “She was only a whore again because of you!”

        • Sean C. says:

          It’s absurd because it’s framed as Tyrion being noble in objecting to the term.

          • Maddy says:

            It really annoyed me but … I don’t think Tyrion is supposed to be ‘noble’ in that moment. Having him feel sorry for himself about Shae next season is going to be infuriating. But as long as the show itself recognises how hypocritical that is (and even has someone call him out on it) I don’t see a problem with it. It is problematic in their framing of Tyrion as a much more noble character than he is in the books though.

        • I agree. I think Tyrion thinks of it like this: for him, Shae’s betrayal was deeply deeply personal. Not only did she perjure herself at the trial, but she did so in the most hurtful way possible. Then she sleeps with his father despite knowing his darkest secret. And then he kills her, and is clearly a bit unhinged by the experience.

          But for Tywin to call Shae a whore is to deny the emotional reality of all of that, to say that what Shae did and what Tyrion did didn’t matter. But to Tyrion, who spends most of ADWD in quasi-suicidal depression over his feels of guilt, the meaning is everything.

  11. Petyr Patter says:

    On one hand, I feel like this episode did a lot well, but simultaneously had some huge problems.

    Forget Lady Stoneheart, there was no Tysha revelation! One of the most formative experiences in Tyrion’s life was his marriage to Tysha and Tywin’s horrific response. To learn later that Tysha had been the honest one to him and suffered a horrible gang rape; while his father and brother lied and suffered… nothing.

    Without that revelations… Tywin’s death loses much of its impact and Tyrions behavior is harder to understand. While I think they filmed Shae’s death perhaps the only way they could have, Shae panicking and grabbing a knife because she doesn’t know Tyrion’s intentions forcing Tyrion to actually defend himself and kill Shae regardless of his intentions, but Tywin? Because he said “whore?” Tyrion did the same thing in a public court. Why was Tywin even in the chamber of the Hand? Tyrion was just given his life by Jaime and Varys, and he risks throwing it all away again to… what? See his father one last time? I don’t think an unarmed Tyrion could have taken Tywin without catching him with his pants down (literally!).

    Also disappointing was Bryden Rivers. He looked like an old man sitting with some roots. Which might have worked had we just not walked through a Skyrim crypt with a wood elf. They didn’t even bother to put a bandage over one of his eyes, which makes his catch phrase (1,000 eyes and 1) lose a lot of impact. As it is, I think they should have had the Jim Hendson’s company make a convincing muppet and just voiced the character.

    • David Hunt says:

      In regard to Tyrion going to the Tower of the Hand in the first place, he decided that he had to have it out with his father. Tywin is the most important figure in the lives of all of his children. If Tyrion was going to leave Westeros forever, he had to break with his father. Tactically this was stupid as Tywin could rouse the castle if Tyrion left him in good condition, but I’m sure that Tyrion knew that. I would argue that he was going to murder him even before he killed Shae. As to his reasons, well he came right out and said them when he wsa face to face with his father. Tywin has wanted him dead all his life. Tywin framed him for regicide and sentenced him to death. The word “whore” was just the last ounce of pressure on the hair trigger of that situation.

      I don’t think that Tywin’s original plan was apparently to pack him off to the Wall after using him as leverage to get the heir that he wanted back in the line of succession. It may have even made it worse. Plus, he’s sure to have worked out by now that Shae’s testimony was obviously scripted out by Tywin in such a way as to be as hurtful to Tyrion as possible. One last jab to stick to his son before he shipped him off several thousand miles to wither and die out of his sight.

      • David Hunt says:

        Reading over that second paragraph, the first sentence if very misleading because I left out the last clause. It should read: “I don’t think that Tywin’s original plan was apparently to pack him off to the Wall after using him as leverage to get the heir that he wanted back in the line of succession made it any better. Above I gave the impression that I didn’t think that Tywin’s real plan was to get Jaime back as his heir. I think that was the most important part. The fact that it meant that Tyrion would have to live was probably sub-optimal from Tywin’s POV but still acceptable since he’d never have to see him again.

    • I understand the Tysha thing – without the internal monologue, there wasn’t away to keep the Tysha thing in people’s minds for three seasons. I’ve seen/listened to show-only people having the difference describe to them, they generally don’t care.

  12. MightyIsobel says:

    Good review/recap video.

    1. Could you drop a link to one of the Ta-Nehisi Coates essays you referenced in the discussion of the problems of integrating the Wildlings into Northern society?

    2. The Cersei/Tywin scene felt to me like it was included to send off Tywin with full knowledge of his failure as a father. Unfortunately, servicing Tywin’s arc this way undercut the themes of Cersei’s characterization as a cunning politician and a fiercely protective mother, probably even more than the writers actually intended.

    3. I agree with SEK about the way the fight sequences were structured and filmed in Eps 9 and 10, I think. Would have liked to have heard more of his thoughts, especially about his antecedent examples such as Kurosawa.

    • Maddy says:

      I think that’s my problem with the Cersei/ Tywin scene. I did like the line about caring so much about his family but not knowing what they were doing (terrible paraphrasing) but I just can’t see Cersei doing that. It doesn’t ultimately matter because Tywin is going to die but Cersei can’t know that.

      Both Jaime and Cersei didn’t make a lot of sense to me this episode (although it’s been a problem all season even leaving aside ‘that’ scene)

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